Thread: Favorite "Divine Level" Cards

Undeniably the Egyptian God Cards; they are the originals, have the best designs, and they have the best effects, at least as far as I'm concerned. The Sacred Beasts are posers, and the Earthbound Gods are just plain stupid.

The Devil's Avatar.

Durhurhurrrrr.


OH. I misread. Which set.

R's Devil-Gods. Dreadroot was everything Obelisk continually failed to be design-wise, Avatar was ingenious in it's clich� ~*~angst device~*~ concept and hilariously stupid design, and Eraser was a chicken that got its head cut off.

How is that not awesome.

su awesum that you forgot to stick them on your poll, amirite?

Well i see he is talking only about the anime series' Divine monsters. But statistic wise only the Egyptian Gods are really Divine. I'm all for them originals. Next of course are the R's anti-Gods.

Let's face it: this isn't a poll, it's a massacre.

The designs of the Sangenma aren't bad (except Armityle) but I don't see how they can win, since they're inspired by and weaker than the original Gods - the true card games are serious business cards. In a perfect world, the God Cards would have remained the only 'cards which are more than mere cards'. Plus, do the Sangenma have 'Wrath of God' as their theme BGM? I didn't think so.

The Earthbound Gods are different, but it doesn't matter how much CGI they're made of, they're simply not quite as awesome as the original three God Cards. At least they tried to break from the Rule of 3. R's Wicked Gods are quite frankly my favourites after the originals. They captured the necessary awe, and had the beautiful, slightly Engrishy flavour texts: God over God...

DM Gods. That's all I can say.

DM Gods here as well. I remember when I first saw them, I was like, "Whoa!". And they scared the heck out of people in Episode 85. Okay, they actually killed them. Or just harmed people badly. I love their mighty presence and their role as the most fearsome monsters in the card game.

R's Wicked Gods take the second place, they take the role for the "Anti-Gods" quite well. Dreadroot is probably my favorite, although some of the shadowy forms of the monsters produced by the Avatar are great as well.

DM Gods win hands down, Slifer was always my fave of the 3. Wicked Gods after that, then Earthbounds over Sacred Beasts

I chose the Egyptian Gods because they're the coolest and most original. Obelisk is my personal favorite because it looks like an obedient but powerful servant of the Pharaoh.

The Sangenma look like bad rip-offs of the Egyptian Gods, while the Earthbound Gods don't seem to have the awesomeness or the power. The most seemingly powerful one was Ccapac Apu, but now that it's dead....

Second choice for me is also the three anti-gods of R, especially Avatar. I liked how it was a real threat to the original gods.

If only the DM gods had 5Ds-style summoning chants...

I'm going to go against the mold and vote the Earthbounds.

The only Egyptian God Card I really liked was Osiris, and I haven't really read R for the others. The Sangenma are pretty cool, "posers" or not. They weren't really shown, or meant, to be rivals to the Gods it seemed to me. Just powerful cards that paid a homage to the originals.

The Earthbound Gods are pretty cool, plus I love their crazy names. Ccpac Apu gains bonus points for looking like Regigigas.

The Egyptian God cards are the definitive, true, Divine cards of YGO, period. Their backstory, design, history, and actual importance to the plot make them my favorite. It was thanks to these cards, and the lore behind them, that allowed for YGO's card based storyline to allow for the suspension of disbelief, that would allow everyone to believe these characters were fighting so hard over card games. Because the God Cards weren't just cards..they were personifications of the Egyptian Gods and their wrath. People got killed over these cards. Anyone foolish enough to try to play counterfeit copies of them were either smitten or driven mad. They were more than cards. They were divine power incarnate.

The reason I hate on the wannabe God Cards of GX, is because they didn't really go anywhere, or explain themselves. They are the epitome Mac Guffin of YGO GX. Who made these cards? Why were they made? What is their overall significance? Where do they get their power from? What ancient lore or power do they draw their mystical energy from? They almost...gave an explanation to them, having Daitokuji-sensei discover a tablet with their likeness on them, but that went absolutely nowhere, just like many other plot threads in GX. We're just left to wonder and scratch our heads.

Also, their power is pretty stupid and insignificant as well. A real let down. These Sacred Demons..who are hyped up as having the potential to destroy the world like the Egyptian Gods...just...steal the pictures..I'm sorry...the "spirits" of other YGO cards? Really, NAS? That's the best we get this time? The second intro to YGO GX featured kick ass Kenichi Hara animation of the Sacred Demons, hyping them as some serious monsters. The opening where each of their profiles are briefly showcased, dead souls ala Kul Elna floating around Duel Academia, the summonings of Raviel bursting forth from the earth with demonic red eyes, Hamon rising out of the water and freezing it..and Uria rising out of a bubbling volcano...THOSE were the Sacred Demons I wanted to see. But alas, no. All we got were some rather weak nomis who's sole purpose was to literally break the card game, and allow Mr. Diaperman to live forever. The worst we see happening is a Black Luster Soldier card going white and a kid crying in a card shop.

No offense to GX or its writers, but...I didn't feel quite so threatened by the Sacred Beasts. Like..at all really.

It also didn't help that we literally got no explanation at all as to what the Shadow Charms were, or where the hell they came from either.

So alas, no. The Sacred Beasts failed to hold my interest, or even earn a bit of respect.

If you're going to make another set of "gods" in YGO, do it right. Go balls out. Make the cards something that'll make you crap your pants over when you see it because you know that you're life is on the line. See the Earthbound Gods of 5Ds. Now THOSE are some "Divine" cards that didn't look or feel like cheap, Chinese knock offs.

Earthbound Gods were much more impressive because they for one, literally required souls to be summoned. They actually had effects that put them above other cards..namely immunity from spells, and traps...they could attack the player directly, REGARDLESS...and they were ****ing huge. Not to mention, they neatly tied their origination and purpose to actual Peruvian folklore and history. They had a purpose. A background. And actually went somewhere. They looked unique, weren't rip offs of the original God cards, and had their own unique mechanic going for them.

So yes. 5Ds actually did something right in that regard. They did it awesomely.

I could not have said it better.
Heck no one could.

5D's despite the D-Wheel idea its the actual true follower of of the original. But still not enough to be a 100% successor.

I'd like to back up Mako with how betrayed I felt when the best that those awesome, powerful demons glimpsed in the 99% OP could do was turn Ojama Yellow's card art into a skeleton.

It also didn't help that we literally got no explanation at all as to what the Shadow Charms were, or where the hell they came from either.

This too.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

-Snip-

Originally Posted by the forum

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Makoeyes987 again.

///Filler\\\

Vote for the everlasting classics - Egyptian Gods (Yu-gi-oh DM) ;p

Hrm, it appears I did post in this topic before, but I think I'll do it again.

I think the three Mythic Demons do deserve some slack, though. I'm not saying that they are "BEST THING EVAR", but I don't perceive them as too lame or anything.

Going by what Kagemaru and Daitokuji said, I think this is how the story of the Mythic Demons went:

Kagemaru, being an old man connected to life support, witnessed the youths of his time. Presumably afraid of dying and being tied to the life he lives as an old man, he wishes to stand against his destiny.

He hears about Daitokuji, a wandering alchemist who is looking for the Philosopher's Stone. He makes a contract with Daitokuji to research into a way of attaining eternal life. Daitokuji keeps on traveling until he discovers Duel Monsters, more specifically, the Mythic Demons. Now, the Demons' similarity could be justified with the fact that cultures copied each others' Gods - the Romans' Gods being based on the Greek ones is a good example. It's called syncretism. They may have been capable of greater power, but they have lost them over the ages. Daitokuji recognized their powers and Kagemaru had the tablets delivered away, whose mind had started to go cloudy and getting obsessed with keeping himself alive.

Kagemaru, in hopes of powering up the Demons, researched mystical topics, including Duel Monsters itself, possibly with the aid of Daitokuji. The Shadow Amulets may have been created by him as well, or at least a few of them. (Titan's, and his, for instance. He did wear a ring bearing the Eye of Horus.) He eventually established the Duel Academy along with Kaiba and the help of his technology on a remote island. Kaiba may have agreed to it because of the reason he created Kaiba Land - to keep children happy. As for the Duel Academia being a duel school - it was part of Kagemaru's plan. And besides, it was thought up by an old man. Would anyone expect that to make sense?

Daitokuji moved to the island and established his alchemy laboratory there, along with the three Demon tablets. As for how the cards got created, perhaps Kagemaru was influental enough, and judging by what goes on at I2 now and then, he may have hired someone to work behind Pegasus' back, or something like that.

So he established the Academia, hired the Academia staff and entrusted the Keys to the now-sealed-away Demons to Samejima. As for how the Seven Stars exactly got hired, I'll admit I don't have a good explanation for it, but I'm going to justify their existence with the slowly-but-surely-increasing dimensional pressure on the area? Saiou did mention that all the incidents on the island (Demons, Light of Destruction, Yubel) caused the dimension to weaken in the island's area.

And thus the Academia started to operate, the students went on dueling. Daitokuji took up his teacher persona and began his role as a double agent. The act of dueling generating a greater power was prominent in Ancient Egypt (people strengthening their Ka) and later in GX (Ryou's and Johan's cross-dimension duel) as well as in 5D's (Illiaster's motive). Then came the people of the Seven Stars, including Fubuki with Darkness being the Bakura of GX sneaking around. Considering the potential powers of the Demons, some of them intended to get the Demons for themselves, but failed at their goal when Judai beat all of them. Judai emerging as the most prominent Duelist (thanks to him harboring the Power of Gentle Darkness to begin with) and Manjoume losing the duel with Asuka while harboring intense emotions in his heart, the Demons were powered up enough and it was time for Kagemaru to emerge.

And so Kagemaru arrived and took the Demon cards for himself. Of course, they weren't at full power yet, and he had to duel Judai to complete the ritual.

Now, the Demons absorbing the "Duel Spirits"... While it might sound absurd when you see the episode for the first time, but in fact this is another Fridge Brilliance moment (for me, anyway). We know from Darkness that Duel Monsters is the origin of the world, a power which is indeed capable of dominating and destroying the world (as demonstrated with Paradox's future). The Demons were powered up enough to absorb some of those powers, which resulted in a chain reaction: The Demons becoming more powerful thus being able to absorb even more power. Yes, they may have been able to pull the level of destruction depicted in the OP - it's just that Kagemaru only intended to make himself young, thus he focused on the "immortality" aspect rather than the "world domination" one. (Or if he did, it probably wasn't his priority.)

Also, with the Duel Monsters being absorbed from the cards, it would mean no one else would be capable of using Duel Monsters. As DM showed us, the cards were the "weapon and shield", and with no weapons to fight with, humans are defenseless.

But Judai managed to beat Kagemaru, and thus he lost his youth, while the Demons lost their powers with the Duel Monsters being restored to their cards. I'm going to assume they were like a gun or cannon - once you use up your load, you can't really use that weapon anymore, can you? With Kagemaru's incident, the power of the Mythic Demons were all lost, being reduced to their powerless selves they were. Yubel managed to restore them (from what I can remember from Season 3) because she was in the Dimension World, a world native to the origins of the world, which makes it easier for the Demons to be summoned. She also bears quite a lot of suffering in her heart as well, and she could convert those emotions instantly into energy for summoning the Demons (I think the Monster Card she used to summon all three Demons was tied to the "darkness in her heart").

In a sense, I think the Mythic Demon plot parallels a little with Pegasus and Duel Monsters. Duel Monsters existed for a trivial reason - that is, Cyndia's death. (Although Pegasus created Duel Monster somewhat unwillingly, considering the Eye had him as its pawn.) The Duel Academia existed simply because an old man wanted to attain youth and immortality. Both acts endangered the world in the long run - Duel Monsters itself led to the destruction of the world, while the incidents at the Academia increased the dimensional pressure, resulting in further incidents happening. Just like how Duel Monsters' existence set up the later arcs (ultimately ending in being the weapon and shield in the Ceremonial Duel for the Pharaoh), the existence of the Duel Academia and the Demon cards resulted in the other arcs.

You could also draw a parallel with Reshef from Reshef of Destruction. (No, not from Capsule Monsters, because he didn't do anything significant in there. XD It was good to see him in animated form, though.) Reshef absorbed the powers of the Egyptian God Cards which gave him enough power to be active. Reshef gained his further power from the negative energy in the hearts of the Duelists. The full resurrection of Reshef also required a final duel, first against Reshef possessed Pegasus, then against the main character of the game.

And... that's it. I'm not saying the Mythic Demons are perfect. I can see what Makoeyes meant with some of his reasons, I do agree on the Egyptian Gods having an impact because of how they tie into the story with being the key to Dark Yugi's memory and all. I won't deny Kagemaru appearing as a silly villain because of being "Mr. Buff Diaperman with his Demonic Petting Zoo". Or how we never witnessed people dying over the Demons (although didn't most of the Seven Stars members disappear in the end?) Even if they don't tie as much into the plot as the Egyptian God Cards or the Earthbound Gods, their existence is still noteworthy regarding the series. They had a pretty cool design, anyhow. And tributing Trap and Magic cards to summon Uria and Hamon were interesting in the anime.

Oh, and one interesting note: The 10th Anniversary Animation Book doesn't mention the Egyptian Gods (Sangenshin) at all when writing about the Mythic Demons. Not even in the "Connect to GX" section.

Anyway, I'm changing my previous vote to all the Divine cards. They all have pretty cool aspects for which one could adore them. The Egyptian Gods can be summed up with what Makoeyes said. The Demons I have explained above. I liked the Earthbound Gods being the Ancient Evils sealed away by the Crimson Dragon and their role as the antithesis of the Crimson Dragon and the Signers. And I loved their designs as well (although I can't help but be reminded of the Twilight monsters from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess at times... XD). The Wicked Gods from R were also interesting with being the antithesis to Yugi's God Cards. And because Yakou is awesome.

I do have a question, though. Would Sin Truth Dragon be considered a "Divine Level" card? It isn't part of a "God series" as the others are, but its impression and appearance seem to hint at a powerful creature. Then there's Sin Paradigm Shift glowing in the colors of the God cards. Seeing how the Egyptian God cards originally represented the polarities of the universe, Sin Truth Dragon representing both Light and Dark (Obelisk) could refer to how all the Sin monsters don the black/white masks. Good and Evil (Osiris) could refer to Paradox's noble goal of saving the future but carrying the "Sin" of humanity which led to the world's destruction. And finally, Heaven and Earth (Ra). Sin Truth Dragon seems to carry the patterns of divine punishment (the card's background, "Sin Thunderbolt" being its effect/actual attack name), while Earth... uh. Perhaps how it required a human sacrifice? So in overall, Sin Truth Dragon carries the aspects of all three Egyptian God cards. If it can be considered as a Divine Level card, then it is also going on my list. =D

You know, if you were one the writers for GX, then maybe it wouldn't have sucked so hard. XD

At least you try to fill in the plot holes. But since the actual writers never did, all we're doing is trying to fill a cup that has no bottom. The Sacred Beasts are one of the empty plot threads that never get answered and extrapolated.

Another thing I want to know is how the hell does Marcel have Sacred Beast support cards? You can't just brush it off and say "Yubel made it" or something, because before he turned evil he even said "Phantasmal Martyrs" was his favorite card. Why the heck would he even *have* a card that supports a theme that no one should even know exists?

And another thing I never understood was, if the Sacred Beasts were absorbing all the Duel Monster spirits, why were Judai's monsters not absorbed too? Or at least, effected?

For me, the bigger issue about the Mythic Demons/Sacred Beasts is that Samejima says that they were supposed to have been sealed beneath the school since 'Ancient Times.'

How?

I mean, it would be one thing if he were talking about those big hulking stone tablets like the ones used in Ancient Egypt, but he's not; he's talking about those little cardboard cards created by Pegasus in the late 20th century. So, what, did Yuugi send them back in time so they could be sealed beneath the earth for thousands of years? Because while that might make for a neat fanfiction, that's something that the writers should have actually taken care of in the actual show.

Samejima's too busy being a chubby chaser, mackin' on Tome-san. How can he be expected to keep track of such things as the ancient lore and "history" behind cards that can destroy the world?

It's all part of the crack that is the first season's arc, man. If you think too much on it, you increase your risk for aneurysm by 25%.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

You know, if you were one the writers for GX, then maybe it wouldn't have sucked so hard. XD

At least you try to fill in the plot holes. But since the actual writers never did, all we're doing is trying to fill a cup that has no bottom. The Sacred Beasts are one of the empty plot threads that never get answered and extrapolated.

Heh, thanks. XD But that's what I like doing - figure out unexplained, crazy stuff. =D But hey, you can always pretend you accept my explanation. *shot*

Another thing I want to know is how the hell does Marcel have Sacred Beast support cards? You can't just brush it off and say "Yubel made it" or something, because before he turned evil he even said "Phantasmal Martyrs" was his favorite card. Why the heck would he even *have* a card that supports a theme that no one should even know exists?

I haven't seen that part of GX, but Happy Trippy Lava Lamp Yubel can influence people's thoughts even in that form, no? From what I read, Yubel hijacked Martin because of his depression about his parents' divorce. Maybe Yubel picked this up and started influencing Martin somehow, setting him up for possession? Or perhaps Napoleon overheard the discussion regarding the Demons and then told his son about it for whatever reason? (Okay, I don't see why would he do it, but it's just an idea from me.)

Perhaps it's like Dragon Age, where demons enjoy possessing Mages connecting to the Fade. Yubel as a Desire Demon... Mmmhmm...

And another thing I never understood was, if the Sacred Beasts were absorbing all the Duel Monster spirits, why were Judai's monsters not absorbed too? Or at least, effected?

Maybe it's like how the Dark Signer duels were handled in 5D's? Everyone who wasn't a Signer/wasn't in the Signer's vicinity was absorbed into the Earthbound God. Everyone's Duel Monsters outside the duel was absorbed into the Demons. And Judai is the reincarnation of the man who held the Power of Gentle Darkness in him, which may have somehow played part in this, despite being dormant at the time.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Samejima's too busy being a chubby chaser, mackin' on Tome-san. How can he be expected to keep track of such things as the ancient lore and "history" behind cards that can destroy the world?

It's all part of the crack that is the first season's arc, man. If you think too much on it, you increase your risk for aneurysm by 25%.

I LOL'd. XD But anyway, when did he say that? I don't recall that from the Seven Stars arc... oh well.

Maybe Samejima has a bad memory? Or if he said in a later arc, maybe all those events are getting to his head. Must be hard to lead a school where your students' lives are constantly endangered...

Okay, I have no idea on that one. D: Although I don't fear them aneurysms...

Originally Posted by Arynis

I LOL'd. XD But anyway, when did he say that? I don't recall that from the Seven Stars arc... oh well.

Maybe Samejima has a bad memory? Or if he said in a later arc, maybe all those events are getting to his head. Must be hard to lead a school where your students' lives are constantly endangered...

Okay, I have no idea on that one. D: Although I don't fear them aneurysms...

Samejima said it in episode 29, when he's explaining everything to everyone.

Probably the writes still had ideas for the Demons' stone tablets then.

But as you know DM its all about cards so thats what we get from NAS.

Arynis good explanation to fill in the wholes in the plot. But if most if it is not said in the animes and mangas of these series. OR in these info books or the writers himself said anything similar. I will can just take it as a fan explanation. I believe me I'm have enough of such deep explanations without some proof.
I Personally have made up such similar stories in my head before when I still knew only about the dub. And with my imagination and bits and pieces of info tried to complete TEH PUZZLE. Lol the irony.
And after the Internet opened my eyes about the original, specially when I had some sort of a story already established to fill in for the dub. Well imagine my feelings then, specially after I saw all the edits and dialog changes(that even today pop up such changed details).

So no. I like to read such theories, but these are just good ideas for another series. Specially one that have more proofs in them. AND it just feels bad that it will never come true. Even in magan form.
Though the ppl that still have hope they can relay their hopes on the GX manga. And other YGO! future mangas. That over all have less and less to do with that what actually made most of us to say and wait for the next episode/volume of the original.

Originally Posted by DARKMASTER

Probably the writes still had ideas for the Demons' stone tablets then.

But as you know DM its all about cards so thats what we get from NAS.

Arynis good explanation to fill in the wholes in the plot. But if most if it is not said in the animes and mangas of these series. OR in these info books or the writers himself said anything similar. I will can just take it as a fan explanation. I believe me I'm have enough of such deep explanations without some proof.
I Personally have made up such similar stories in my head before when I still knew only about the dub. And with my imagination and bits and pieces of info tried to complete TEH PUZZLE. Lol the irony.
And after the Internet opened my eyes about the original, specially when I had some sort of a story already established to fill in for the dub. Well imagine my feelings then, specially after I saw all the edits and dialog changes(that even today pop up such changed details).

So no. I like to read such theories, but these are just good ideas for another series. Specially one that have more proofs in them. AND it just feels bad that it will never come true. Even in magan form.
Though the ppl that still have hope they can relay their hopes on the GX manga. And other YGO! future mangas. That over all have less and less to do with that what actually made most of us to say and wait for the next episode/volume of the original.

The Demons' backstory was taken from what Daitokuji said during his duel with Judai, and Samejima's explanation about Kagemaru as well as Kagemaru's dialogue in the beginning of episode 47. I will admit I made up the justifications on the Demons' mechanics based on Darkness' explanation on Duel Monsters being "the origin of the world", as well as exactly how the Seven Stars tie into the story. But a good chunk of it was stated in the anime itself:

Originally Posted by Daitokuji, Episode 46

I originally traveled the world as an alchemist... To search for the Philosopher's Stone. It is a legendary jewel sought after by alchemists. It is said to change all metals into gold and even create perpetual youth and longevity medicine. [...] I accepted someone's orders and also did research into it. And... As Pegasus once attained Duel Monsters... so did my research finally lead me to Duel Monsters.

[...]

However, before my inevitable death... I must get the power to control the ultimate spirits for the one who supported my research, as well. [...] If I had the power of the three Mythic Demons alone, I would be able to create the Philosopher's Stone!

Originally Posted by Daitokuji, Episode 47

The one who supported my research has gained a mighty power... and, before he was aware of it, his mind became clouded. Judai, an even greater disaster will eventually happen on this island. I had to nurture the power to oppose that disaster...

It's pretty obvious that Kagemaru was the one who supported Daitokuji here. For a man who wanted to regain his youth, they would surely try to seek an alchemist's help. (Whether the Stone was a symbol for enlightenment or an actual tool to create medicine capable of making someone young again is up to debate. On a side note, homeopathy was born from alchemy, and Paracelsus was the person who began the prototype of homeopathy via his alchemy researches.)

Now, for Samejima's and Kagemaru's lines:

Originally Posted by Kagemaru and Samejima, Episode 48

K: "I cannot give those cards to you all. Principal Samejima, I see that you have forgotten my voice..."

S: "Is that voice... Chairman Kagemaru?!"

K: "The time is now right. I will now conduct the ritual to revive the three Mythic Demons right here."

Judai: "A ritual to revive the three Mythic Demons?!"

Manjoume: "What do you mean?! Why have the Seven Spirit Gates opened on their own?!"

K: "Because I had set it up from the beginning. I myself was the one who sealed the three Mythic Demons away here and entrusted the seven keys to Samejima. The seven keys were no more than a tool to have you battle the Seven Stars...and to strengthen the fighting spirits of the Duelists that are on this island. Many years ago, I acquired the three Mythic Demons, legendary cards that are said...to grant eternal life and world domination. However, to revive the power that lies dormant within the three Mythic Demon cards... I found that I needed a space that was full with the fighting spirits of duelists. It is for that reason that I created this academy... and nurtured duelists appropriate for the revival of the three Mythic Demons."

[...]

K: "You're my opponent, Yuki Judai! Yes... It would be meaningless without you, he who holds the most powerful power to control spirits...

Proof that Kagemaru created the Academia. I have read that it was Kaiba who established it, too. But we know that students went to Kaiba Corporation for the entrance exams. Therefore, we could assume that Kaiba and Kagemaru worked together to build the Academia, especially because of all the technology in there. Kagemaru building the Academia and handing the seven keys over to Samejima imply that he planned everything regarding the Demons out. And he mentions "revive the power" which require the fighting spirits of Duelists. Again, this is a pattern observed in the other series as well. And Kagemaru mentions at the end of the duel how he wanted to be young again, which implies he wanted to seek out Daitokuji's, and then the Demons' aid to make himself young again.

And fan theories aren't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, several headache inducing series (Neon Genesis Evangelion, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross) rely on theories and explanations put together by fans, as these series are known for not explaining certain events/mechanisms, or they merely imply it. Then those theories are widely accepted by the fans as how said event worked or how said mechanism works. Now, I'm not saying GX is a masterpiece, it does have flaws, yes. But so do the other YGO series. So do Evangelion and Chrono Trigger. They all have plotholes. Heck, Chrono Cross is what you could somewhat call the GX of the Chrono series, even. It had a ton of potential characters, they fleshed out only a few, have a gazillion plot threads going on and even the ending doesn't make sense. It's still a great game. If fan theories were shunned away for series like that, you'd be left with a confusing, frustrating mess.

Perhaps GX won't be perfect even after my explanation, but it may help to accept the writers' mistakes better and enjoy their work more. You just can't rely on canon all the time.

Originally Posted by Arynis

And fan theories aren't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, several headache inducing series (Neon Genesis Evangelion, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross) rely on theories and explanations put together by fans, as these series are known for not explaining certain events/mechanisms, or they merely imply it. Then those theories are widely accepted by the fans as how said event worked or how said mechanism works. Now, I'm not saying GX is a masterpiece, it does have flaws, yes. But so do the other YGO series. So do Evangelion and Chrono Trigger. They all have plotholes. Heck, Chrono Cross is what you could somewhat call the GX of the Chrono series, even. It had a ton of potential characters, they fleshed out only a few, have a gazillion plot threads going on and even the ending doesn't make sense. It's still a great game. If fan theories were shunned away for series like that, you'd be left with a confusing, frustrating mess.

Perhaps GX won't be perfect even after my explanation, but it may help to accept the writers' mistakes better and enjoy their work more. You just can't rely on canon all the time.[/FONT]

You know, its funny that you bring up Neon Genesis Evangelion and Chrono Cross; in the case of the former, Hideki Anno admitted that the constant Judeo-Christian imagery throughout the series was entirely gratuitous and if he'd known that the show was going to be so popular overseas, he would not have done that; lets not forget all the Freudian themes which are largely regarded as a crock in modern psychology. As for Chrono Cross, the main writer there, I forget his name at the moment, admitted that the ending was "meant to make us think about our own reality", as opposed to actually resolving the storyline of the game; not to mention the egregious pacing problems that plagued the latter half of the game, including giant infodumps all of two minutes before the end of the game. In short, these two stories don't really support your thesis that GX was even a good series.

And as for all the 'symbolism' and 'references' in GX, I just have four words to say; Judai dueled a monkey.

Judai dueled a monkey.

Really, I feel that says it all about GX.

Of course, this is all off topic, so I'll finish by saying that I prefer the original Egyptian God Cards over their cheap knock-offs. And the Earthbound Gods leave me pretty Meh.

Problem is that issue that its all about the cards coming again and again.
So to try to make something even close to NGE of something with the base idea GX had. I mean what are they thinking ? We all know what the majority of the fan base of theses shows is. These shows are basically made for that fan base. So they can sell more cards.
So what did they expected from that fan base if they really thought the story to be so subtle ? What popularity the show would gather with that kind of thinking ?
Instead simply making a sports anime with cards. Which I think would have been more successful compared to what we assume the writers though as the plot of this show.

Not to mention the duels were in the way all the time for that kind of plot. And we did have a lot of random meaningless duels in GX.

Well after DM, for NAS would never be enough to have Duel Monsters just as a simple sport(even if that sport as poplar as the bible) in their anime.
So ALLL must Duel Monsters cards AND about Duel Monsters cards. Heck even love as we saw. In the end of GX I think it was clear to all that Judai got a Duel Monster card for a life mate.

So, again, what were they thinking if all this you managed to explain was somehow in the writers heads ?

Cuz to me they simply had no idea what they were doing.

I liked the Sacred Beasts, I must have horrible tastes

Originally Posted by cypsiman2

You know, its funny that you bring up Neon Genesis Evangelion and Chrono Cross; in the case of the former, Hideki Anno admitted that the constant Judeo-Christian imagery throughout the series was entirely gratuitous and if he'd known that the show was going to be so popular overseas, he would not have done that; lets not forget all the Freudian themes which are largely regarded as a crock in modern psychology. As for Chrono Cross, the main writer there, I forget his name at the moment, admitted that the ending was "meant to make us think about our own reality", as opposed to actually resolving the storyline of the game; not to mention the egregious pacing problems that plagued the latter half of the game, including giant infodumps all of two minutes before the end of the game. In short, these two stories don't really support your thesis that GX was even a good series.

And as for all the 'symbolism' and 'references' in GX, I just have four words to say; Judai dueled a monkey.

Judai dueled a monkey.

Really, I feel that says it all about GX.

As I said, I didn't say GX was a masterpiece or anything.

Yes, Evangelion and Chrono Cross have an advantage because they had Word of God classify things for them. GX didn't. But GX still has symbolism, and I believe Poet brought them up and explained them in his posts. Yes, they are not the most obvious connections, but they work. And that is enough, especially when you had someone to explain them for you. Yes, GX may have made a mistake by making some of their points subtle. But some of them were totally blatant - how about Saiou's Tarot cards? I believe that was rather obvious. But we must work with what we have... and they work.

So just because GX doesn't have Word of God, it is horrible? Maybe they want us to come to our own conclusions on some of the symbolism? And what, GX can't have some silly comic relief/"what was that" episode going on? DM and 5D's had it too.

Originally Posted by DARKMASTER

Problem is that issue that its all about the cards coming again and again.
So to try to make something even close to NGE of something with the base idea GX had. I mean what are they thinking ?

The Darkness Arc says hi. So does Scab Scar Knight. And Asuka. And Rei. Sort of. (Fine, the latter two in name only.) And we started out with a "duel school", which then became the Mind Screw we got to know in the Darkness arc. Just like how Evangelion began as your regular mecha anime and developed into that psychological Mind Screw.

We all know what the majority of the fan base of theses shows is. These shows are basically made for that fan base. So they can sell more cards.
So what did they expected from that fan base if they really thought the story to be so subtle ? What popularity the show would gather with that kind of thinking ?

If that was really the case, then why go through all the effort of putting all the references in? If YGO was made just for those kids, why bother with the references?

Well after DM, for NAS would never be enough to have Duel Monsters just as a simple sport(even if that sport as poplar as the bible) in their anime.
So ALLL must Duel Monsters cards AND about Duel Monsters cards. Heck even love as we saw. In the end of GX I think it was clear to all that Judai got a Duel Monster card for a life mate.

So, again, what were they thinking if all this you managed to explain was somehow in the writers heads ?

Cuz to me they simply had no idea what they were doing.

Metaphors. Darkness wasn't being literal. As for cards and life mates, Pegasus was attempting to do the same, materialize his love from a piece of card. Granted, Cyndia wasn't a Duel Monster and didn't do anything on her own, but it's still somewhat similar. His plan was still tied to the card game, to an extent.

But my point still stands - God forbid I try to use a fan theory to justify something. Especially for, y'know, GX. Because fan theories are cool for everything else.

ancient egyptians cards are the best

SUPER ULTRA MEGA CHICKEN = win

Were is everyone getting this "Judai's cards were safe from the Sengenma because he is Judai" stuff from? Kagemaru flat-out says that the Sengenma are draining the spirits from every monster from everyone aside from Judai and himself, because they're the ones playing the shadow game.

People don't dislike the Sengenma for their similarity to the Gods. If that were the case, YGO R would have never gotten off the ground. They failed to deliver. They had neat designs and cool effects, but the worts they could do is end Duel Monsters? Please, Kagemaru threatened to SINK THE ISLAND if Judai refused to duel him, and the only thing thaty happens if he loses is that some kids will cry and the pros and academies will go out of business. That's still antagonistic and all, but not "Big Bad" antagonistic.

The Darkness Arc says hi. So does Scab Scar Knight. And Asuka. And Rei. Sort of. (Fine, the latter two in name only.) And we started out with a "duel school", which then became the Mind Screw we got to know in the Darkness arc. Just like how Evangelion began as your regular mecha anime and developed into that psychological Mind Screw.

I think you misunderstand him. He was saying that GX trying to go the same route as NGE was just a bad idea from the get-go. References are nice, but a complete plot rip gone terrible isn't, especially when you put so much emphasis on the card game.

Originally Posted by JACK_ATLUS

Were is everyone getting this "Judai's cards were safe from the Sengenma because he is Judai" stuff from? Kagemaru flat-out says that the Sengenma are draining the spirits from every monster from everyone aside from Judai and himself, because they're the ones playing the shadow game.

Yeah, Judai was unaffected because he was in the game with Kagemaru as well, similarly to the Dark Signer duels in 5D's. I raised the whole "dormant Power of Gentle Darkness which somehow protected his monsters" thing as an alternate possibility, it was merely an idea.

People don't dislike the Sengenma for their similarity to the Gods. If that were the case, YGO R would have never gotten off the ground. They failed to deliver. They had neat designs and cool effects, but the worts they could do is end Duel Monsters? Please, Kagemaru threatened to SINK THE ISLAND if Judai refused to duel him, and the only thing thaty happens if he loses is that some kids will cry and the pros and academies will go out of business. That's still antagonistic and all, but not "Big Bad" antagonistic.

To be fair, Kagemaru said that he was going to conduct a ritual to revive the Demons, which would imply the Demons may have not reached their full potential yet during the duel, thus we only saw what they did during their short lived screentime (eg. absorbing Duel Monsters). Because Judai stopped Kagemaru, we don't know what the true potential of the Demons may have been, apart from immortality and world domination. I'd say that's still pretty harsh were it to come into realization.

From what I have seen, Armityle did cause the dimension to fall apart (or at least cause a lot of damage to it in the vicinity of the duel) when it clashed with the Rainbow Dragon. Then again, that was the Dimension World, and the powers of the Demons may have been demonstrated differently there.

I do see what you mean, though. The other Divine cards did cause destruction in their screentime, while the Demons' potential was never actually shown, unless you count Yubel's antics with Armityle in the Dimension World. And the OP. Just what Makoeyes said, we never got to see the Demons causing what they did in the OP, I'll give it that.

I think you misunderstand him. He was saying that GX trying to go the same route as NGE was just a bad idea from the get-go. References are nice, but a complete plot rip gone terrible isn't, especially when you put so much emphasis on the card game.

Yeah, I kind of felt my reply was kind of off there somehow... XD; You're right.

GX wasn't the only series which took after Eva's Instrumentality. I think Code Geass R2's is another notable one, they just used a different set of symbols - just like how GX used the cards to symbolize the whole process. The World Ends With You also had a similar plot, but that was more of a hivemind thing with the Red Skull Pins. My memories are kind of hazy on this, however.

And Evangelion's version was heavily influenced by Childhood's End (although Anno did acknowledge this), so... yeah.

As TV Tropes puts it, Assimilation Plot, was used by quite a few series. I admit I have only seen Evangelion, GX, The World Ends With You and Code Geass, so I cannot comment on the representation of Instrumentality in other works.

You know, if they did the Earthbound Immortal gimmick in GX with the Sacred Beasts, or at least made it to where they actually did real collateral damage, and were physically destructive manifestations of evil that harmed others in the vicinity during the duel, that would've shot them so much higher in terms of popularity and appeal. Make that awesomely animated season 1 intro that showcased the Sacred Beasts real.

If you summon Uria, the volcano of Duel Academia erupts, or lava flows somewhere in the vicinity of the duel.

If you summon Hamon, a dangerous lightning storm and blizzard rains down.

If you summon Raviel, an earthquake occurs, rending the earth.

Had they did something like that, it'd be so much win. Also, give them some good effects that trump up their "divinity." Look at what they did with Exodius. Or Vennominaga the Diety of Poisonous Snakes. THOSE were divine level cards.

Armityle had a great design and was a step in the right direction. I love how its attack was so utterly cosmic and destructive that it couldn't even be fully seen. It was just that freaky and bizarre.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

You know, if they did the Earthbound Immortal gimmick in GX with the Sacred Beasts, or at least made it to where they actually did real collateral damage, and were physically destructive manifestations of evil that harmed others in the vicinity during the duel, that would've shot them so much higher in terms of popularity and appeal. Make that awesomely animated season 1 intro that showcased the Sacred Beasts real.

If you summon Uria, the volcano of Duel Academia erupts, or lava flows somewhere in the vicinity of the duel.

If you summon Hamon, a dangerous lightning storm and blizzard rains down.

If you summon Raviel, an earthquake occurs, rending the earth.

Had they did something like that, it'd be so much win. Also, give them some good effects that trump up their "divinity." Look at what they did with Exodius. Or Vennominaga the Diety of Poisonous Snakes. THOSE were divine level cards.

Oooh, that's a good point there. I like that idea! I can't speak for Vennominaga, but I know Echo was sacrificed for Exodius. That was pretty cruel, yeah.

As for Uria erupting the volcano...

People: "Guys, the volcano erupted! The island is going down!"
Kagemaru: "Well, shit. There goes my plan. It's all your fault Uria!"
Uria: ;A;

The Gods did seem to have those blizzard/lava things when summoned, but they weren't real enough, yeah. Or you could still pretend they just weren't at their full power, and that's the most they could do. XD But yeah, I do agree on that.

Armityle had a great design and was a step in the right direction. I love how its attack was so utterly cosmic and destructive that it couldn't even be fully seen. It was just that freaky and bizarre.

You cannot grasp the true form of Giygas' Armityle's attack! ...Would that make Yubel Pokey? Uhoh...

Congratulations, you've just made me want to play Earthbound again. God, I loved that game.

Need to go play Mother 3 as well.

Yubel is way too sexy to be Porky/Pokey Mich. I find such comparisons horrible. T_T

Oh yeah, the topic. XD

The duel between Amon and Dark Johan was pretty awesome. It was cool seeing the Sacred Beasts go up against Exodia/Exodius. But it was interesting, cause despite the Sacred Beasts being 'on par with the Egyptian Gods' they had NONE of the innate protection or safety from targeting effects like the Gods. So Dark Johan had to basically use tactics and skill to get around Exodius's uber hax and invincibility. Kinda ironic that they're "gods" but so vulnerable, but it gave Dark Johan a nice handicap to showcase his skill.

You know what would be really cool? A fusion between a Sacred Beast, a Wicked God, and maybe even an Earthbound Immortal. I'd sooo love to see what monstrosity would result.