Thread: Is Zorc dead

Yes the book of all evil. Its a really good plot point for future YGO! series to get back to the roots of the original. And also a very good reason for the dark games to come back in their original glory.

I also think Zork as he is a demon he is probably back home/in hell and waiting for some stupid human to use the book(if it still exist) for him to find a way to manipulate and all these wonderful things the bad guys do to get his ass into the present of the mortals.

Such mysterious books are always whole at the end. So I guess The Millennium Spellbook ("Millennium Tome") still remains untouched in the YGO universe and can be used at any time by someone who is able to to translate its meaning.
About Zork - I think the Pharoah was able to kill Zorc permanently by fusing the Egyptian Gods to form The Creator God of Light, Horakhty. Since he is "killed permanently" I guess this means he no longer exists.
Well, the same can't be said for the Shadow Realm. Zork was the one who created it, but I think it still exists, no matter Zork is dead.

Originally Posted by DARKMASTER

Yes the book of all evil. Its a really good plot point for future YGO! series to get back to the roots of the original. And also a very good reason for the dark games to come back in their original glory.

I also think Zork as he is a demon he is probably back home/in hell and waiting for some stupid human to use the book(if it still exist) for him to find a way to manipulate and all these wonderful things the bad guys do to get his ass into the present of the mortals.

Enter Tragoedia.

Was it ever mentioned where the book came from or how old it was?

Originally Posted by Ryuujin

Was it ever mentioned where the book came from or how old it was?

As far as I know in the manga is only said that the book is dating many years before the time of Atem's father. I guess that's why no one of the egyptians hadn't ever been able to translate its meaning (well, except for Akhenaden, but he might not cound cuz he managed to translate the Dark Ritual thanks to Zork, so...)

Originally Posted by Lia

Well, the same can't be said for the Shadow Realm. Zork was the one who created it, but I think it still exists, no matter Zork is dead.

The Shadow Realm is a creation of 4Kids and does not exist in the proper canon.

Originally Posted by Lia

As far as I know in the manga is only said that the book is dating many years before the time of Atem's father. I guess that's why no one of the egyptians hadn't ever been able to translate its meaning (well, except for Akhenaden, but he might not cound cuz he managed to translate the Dark Ritual thanks to Zork, so...)

No one has fully translated the entire book. Akhenaden was only capable of translating the spell to create the Millennium Items, and he translated that spell on his own. Zork didn't help him nor did he have anything to do with the translation.

The anime majorly screwed with the canon set by the manga and therefore created a lot of confusion surrounding Zork. In the manga, Zork never comes into the picture until after Akhenaden places the Millennium Items on the stone slab. Even before Zork the demon comes into the picture, it is Akhenaden who takes the name of Zork Necrophades when he is converted into the Dark Priest. It is Dark Priest Zork Necrophades who Atem fought millennia prior. It is Akhenaden/Dark Priest Zork Necrophades who Atem seals along with himself in the Millennium Puzzle. Zork Necrophades the demon does not show up until the climax of the Shadow RPG.

I would think that Horakhty did kill the demon in the Shadow RPG. But if not, then the only way to awaken its power again is to recreate the Millennium Items and then place them back on the stone slab. (But, Yugi did do this before commencing the Ceremonial Battle. And nothing related to Zork happened. So that should be your explicit clue.) Dark Priest Zork was certainly killed in the Shadow RPG, though.

Thanks for clearing that up. BUT STILL the book is a very good source for other dark and evil things related to Egypt KA monsters demon gods and what not.
It will be very acceptable for fans of he original manga/anime if other YGO! shows used that as the source of the mysteries their plots use.
AND NOT different dimensions, space duel monsters and what not sick mind kiddie plots.

Originally Posted by Ryuujin

Was it ever mentioned where the book came from or how old it was?

I think it was mentioned that the Millennium Tome has been with Egypt for several generations, which is the reason Egypt has been invaded. It is never said where it came from, but it contains the "Alchemy of Darkness".

Although, historically speaking, it is not possible that the book could contain Alchemy at the time (1000 BC in the series), considering that the first references to true Alchemy appeared during the Greco-Roman Egypt, during 3rd-4th Century AD. The fact that Alchemy is brought up here may come from the misconception that Alchemy originated in Ancient Egypt.

A book I am currently reading tried to look for connections between Ancient Egypt and Alchemy (mostly referring to chemical experimentations done in temples), but said part of the book has been challenged and criticized, due to the lack of concrete evidence on the Ancient Egyptian origins of Alchemy in general. The critic noted that the book could be interpreted as a possible speculation on the Ancient Egyptian origins of Alchemy, or an in-depth look at Alchemy's Egyptian-Greek origins, though.

But. I'm wondering if Takahashi may have gone with the Hermes Trismegistus route. The deity is the syncretic combination of Hermes and Thoth, whose name comes from the Hellenistic Alexandria. He's regarded as the ancestor father of Alchemy. He worked on several works which covered Alchemy among other things. Depending on whose opinion one takes, the amount of books he wrote ranges from 42 to 36525. The most famous ones are the Corpus Hermeticum and the Emerald Tablet, which you may have heard Amnael merrily quoting in GX. Anyway. The core of the many legends surrounding H. T. come from the fact that Curing/Medicine and Metallurgy were taught in Ancient Egyptian priest schools as Esoteric Science, and their supposed source was Divine Inspiration.

Buuuuuuut I don't know too much on Hermes Trismegistus. I had to check a few of my books just to pull out the above paragraph.

Well, Levity.com does list Alchemy coming from Ancient Egypt as a common misconception, which is pretty much the Alchemy website. There are several sites saying different things on the subject, but I'm going with Levity on this.

I think we've gone off topic.

I was merely replying to Ryuujin's question, but it took time for me to build my post. But if you want an "on-topic" post, yes, I agree with what Tobi said, Zork likely perished when Horakhty attacked it.

I meant that Tobi already gave a good enough answer. And I just continued on I "better spin-off shows ideas" rant X).

Originally Posted by Tobi

The anime majorly screwed with the canon set by the manga and therefore created a lot of confusion surrounding Zork. In the manga, Zork never comes into the picture until after Akhenaden places the Millennium Items on the stone slab. Even before Zork the demon comes into the picture, it is Akhenaden who takes the name of Zork Necrophades when he is converted into the Dark Priest. It is Dark Priest Zork Necrophades who Atem fought millennia prior. It is Akhenaden/Dark Priest Zork Necrophades who Atem seals along with himself in the Millennium Puzzle. Zork Necrophades the demon does not show up until the climax of the Shadow RPG.

That is some smart analysis. This part of the manga still confuses me a bit.

So are you saying that the spirit of Barkua's Ring was actually Akhenaden calling himself Zork Necrophades? And are you also saying that Atem never physically battled the demon Zork in the actual past?

Actually from what you posted in the other topic, that is exactly what you're saying. Woah, you are totally right! That's the one piece that makes everything make sense!

Originally Posted by russ869

That is some smart analysis. This part of the manga still confuses me a bit.

So are you saying that the spirit of Barkua's Ring was actually Akhenaden calling himself Zork Necrophades? And are you also saying that Atem never physically battled the demon Zork in the actual past?

Actually from what you posted in the other topic, that is exactly what you're saying. Woah, you are totally right! That's the one piece that makes everything make sense!

The spirit of the Millennium Ring is supposedly the Thief King Bakura. I could be wrong and I do need to read Millennium World again, but when Bakura finally explains the Shadow RPG to Atem, he points to Akhenaden's mummified remains and identifies them as the remains of Zorc Necrophades. He doesn't identify himself as Zorc. Although that does beg the question of how Bakura was even sealed in the Millennium Ring, I do think he was supposed to provide an antithesis to Yugi being Atem's reincarnation.

It was never really stated who the Ring's spirit was in the manga. It could be that he looks like the Thief King because Bakura looks like the Thief King and Bakura is his vessel.

No, it's pretty explicitly stated that the dark spirit of the ring is Thief King Bakura, who in turn sold his soul to become Zorc Necrophades. When he made the dark contract with Zorc, he became apart of Zorc, just like Akinadin did, when he became the Dark Priest.

The dark spirit of the ring is an avatar of Zorc, who was originally the Thief King Bakura who witnessed the massacre of Kul Elna. Just how much he is of that individual and how much he is Zorc is debatable. But the spirit of the ring is most definitely connected to that man in some way, despite following the will and volition of Zorc Necrophades.

Originally Posted by Tobi

The spirit of the Millennium Ring is supposedly the Thief King Bakura. I could be wrong and I do need to read Millennium World again, but when Bakura finally explains the Shadow RPG to Atem, he points to Akhenaden's mummified remains and identifies them as the remains of Zorc Necrophades. He doesn't identify himself as Zorc. Although that does beg the question of how Bakura was even sealed in the Millennium Ring, I do think he was supposed to provide an antithesis to Yugi being Atem's reincarnation.

Actually, in the manga I know for a fact that he DOES identify himself as Zork (quite explicitly). It happens during Yuugi's duel with Bakura inside the temple containing the secret nameplate. In fact that's the only time he ever makes any statement to reveal his true identity other than his final words to Malik on the Battle Ship: "I CAME from the darkness." Every other time he talks about himself he always says "I'm not Bakura." He never says "I am..." except for in this one chapter. "I am Zork Necrophades."

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

The dark spirit of the ring is an avatar of Zorc, who was originally the Thief King Bakura who witnessed the massacre of Kul Elna. Just how much he is of that individual and how much he is Zorc is debatable. But the spirit of the ring is most definitely connected to that man in some way, despite following the will and volition of Zorc Necrophades.

Although I also once made this assumption, now I don't see any evidence of this being the case.

....Thief King Bakura is the dark spirit of the ring who became Zorc's slave, and became possessed by him. Who else would he be? He was the first adversary of the Pharaoh who in turn corrupted the Akinadin and made him the Dark Priest. You think he was made up?

Originally Posted by russ869

Actually, in the manga I know for a fact that he DOES identify himself as Zork (quite explicitly). It happens during Yuugi's duel with Bakura inside the temple containing the secret nameplate. In fact that's the only time he ever makes any statement to reveal his true identity other than his final words to Malik on the Battle Ship: "I CAME from the darkness." Every other time he talks about himself he always says "I'm not Bakura." He never says "I am..." except for in this one chapter. "I am Zork Necrophades."

Even though you're talking about the anime, admittedly that statement does come from a manga chapter in which Bakura confronts Yugi's group in the streets of Egypt. (Chapter 40, to be exact.) But just because Bakura identifies himself as Zorc doesn't mean he is originally Zorc. It's the same thing with Akhenaden. He took the name of Zorc Necrophades when he became the Dark Priest. Bakura could've very well done the same, especially if we can agree with Makoeyes' speculation (which is based on evidence of implication provided by the manga) that Thief King Bakura became possessed by Zorc. He's right in that Thief King Bakura was necessary in turning Akhenaden into what he became. So he did exist, at one point. However much is left of him, though, is based upon how corrupted he became by Zorc's power. (Which, if we use Akhenaden as an example, then Bakura, too, probably became a part of Zorc Necrophades.)

The anime had a chance to clarify any confusion over the relationship between Zork Necrophedius, Priest Aknadin, Dark Bakura and Thief King Bakura but instead chose to complicate matters by turning Thief King Bakura into another character entirely, who is only ever seen in his true self for about thirty seconds and is presumably a more thieving-oriented version of the modern Ryo Bakura.

^ you count also the time of TK Bakura we saw as a kid ?

It amazes me just how badly the memory world arc was handled. So many unnecessary changes. Has it ever been discussed why these happened?

Takahashi was ill.

Originally Posted by YaminoRPG

It amazes me just how badly the memory world arc was handled. So many unnecessary changes. Has it ever been discussed why these happened?

First, what are you talking about? The manga or the anime? The manga's handling was rushed but changes? That sounds like more of the anime, which changed numerous things in the first place.

Originally Posted by DARKMASTER

^ you count also the time of TK Bakura we saw as a kid ?

Yes, but I don't see why it matters -- it was just a couple of seconds. And apparently it doesn't inspire the anime Thief King Bakura into a crusade to kill the Pharaoh like it does the manga one.

Originally Posted by Ryusaki

The anime had a chance to clarify any confusion over the relationship between Zork Necrophedius, Priest Aknadin, Dark Bakura and Thief King Bakura but instead chose to complicate matters by turning Thief King Bakura into another character entirely, who is only ever seen in his true self for about thirty seconds and is presumably a more thieving-oriented version of the modern Ryo Bakura.

That about sums it up perfectly.

I'm not sure why the anime did that. But it certainly made it all harder to understand thanks to its changing of the facts and adding ambiguity to Thief King Bakura's actual existence.