Thread: Atem and his sealing

Atem, in sealing himself and Zork, break in same time the Millenium Puzzle and only the chosen one can resolve it. Even If the survivors know Atem's name, they can't unlock Zork because they can't resolve the Puzzle.

Yeah, but if that was the case then there was no point in erasing his memories...

In the manga, when Zork appears to the Dark Priest and say him how the originals events are happened, he states Atem sacrifice himself to seal his soul and Zork then break the Puzzle. He didn't mention anything about Atem's name being erased at this time. So his name is erased by someone other. But there no interest to Atem's allies to erase the name of the Pharaoh.

Atem defeated Zorc Necrophades by using a spell which included his name, he then sealed Zorc in the Millennium Ring. He then sealed himself within the Millennium Puzzle, erasing his mind in the process to keep the spell from ever being used to resurrect Zorc.

This is the summary for the anime of what happened, and it's pretty much explained like that.

I don't think the manga/anime are alike from what seems to be mentioned.

Atem sealed away his memories as a failsafe so that if anyone solved the puzzle and tried to gather the information of resurrecting Zorc from his spirit, they wouldn't be able to, because even he wouldn't know.

It's all an elaborate ritual to ensure that no human being save for the chosen one, would ever gain the knowledge of the dark power behind the Millennium Items.

Atem's name was erased from history to also ensure no one from future generations would ever discover that power as well, or the power of the Egyptian Gods other than the one chosen to wield them. The people of his generation would remember Atem's name but they wouldn't tell anyone, and all burial scriptures would be erased. They wouldn't have to worry about anyone from their time trying to use Atem's name to bring back Zorc because who in their right mind would do that? Zorc nearly destroyed everything. No one would be that stupid.

No one who knew Atem would want to ever try to resurrect Zorc. It'd be stupid and suicidal.

Thanks for clearing it up.

It was just nagging my mind, as I thought "Surely their is atleast one ego-maniac who'd try to take over the world" now.

And it would've made sense if they just added the bit where the spell erased all knowledge of his name from everyone else, or something like that.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Allana

Atem, in sealing himself and Zork, break in same time the Millenium Puzzle and only the chosen one can resolve it. Even If the survivors know Atem's name, they can't unlock Zork because they can't resolve the Puzzle.

Yeah, but Yugi managed to solve the puzzle; so clearly it wasn't beyond the abilities of normal humans.

Originally Posted by Allana

In the manga, when Zork appears to the Dark Priest and say him how the originals events are happened, he states Atem sacrifice himself to seal his soul and Zork then break the Puzzle. He didn't mention anything about Atem's name being erased at this time. So his name is erased by someone other. But there no interest to Atem's allies to erase the name of the Pharaoh.

That makes a really interesting question though: who? There had to be somebody, if that theory is correct, who would be both capable of and desiring to do that; so who would that be?

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Atem sealed away his memories as a failsafe so that if anyone solved the puzzle and tried to gather the information of resurrecting Zorc from his spirit, they wouldn't be able to, because even he wouldn't know.

Wouldn't it be easier to just not record any evidence of Zorc's existence though? Nobody would know about him on the modern world to try.

It's all an elaborate ritual to ensure that no human being save for the chosen one, would ever gain the knowledge of the dark power behind the Millennium Items.

And we all know how well that worked...

The people of his generation would remember Atem's name but they wouldn't tell anyone, and all burial scriptures would be erased. They wouldn't have to worry about anyone from their time trying to use Atem's name to bring back Zorc because who in their right mind would do that? Zorc nearly destroyed everything. No one would be that stupid. No one who knew Atem would want to ever try to resurrect Zorc. It'd be stupid and suicidal.

No one, it seems, except Zorc himself; and really, since Zorc knew the Pharaoh's name, it kinda sucks.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Yeah, but Yugi managed to solve the puzzle; so clearly it wasn't beyond the abilities of normal humans.

No, but getting to it was. And Yugi was essentially the reincarnation of Atem so he was essentially chosen by the puzzle.

That makes a really interesting question though: who? There had to be somebody, if that theory is correct, who would be both capable of and desiring to do that; so who would that be?

Honestly? I think it was Priest Set who did it. Considering he was the one who carved the Epitaph on the Memory Stele that housed the Pharaoh's Memories in the first place. He's the most likely person who did it, since he was the main survivor of the whole Zorc fight.

Wouldn't it be easier to just not record any evidence of Zorc's existence though? Nobody would know about him on the modern world to try.

...Where is there any evidence of Zorc Necrophades and his existence? It's not just about Zorc's existence being known. When Atem's soul returned, so did Zorc's. Atem had to be forgotten too. Since they're both sealed in the Puzzle.

And we all know how well that worked...

Yeah..it worked perfectly. Seeing as how the Puzzle didn't end up in anyone's hands for over 3000 years until Solomon got it and brought it to Yugi. I'd say it all worked quite well.

No one, it seems, except Zorc himself; and really, since Zorc knew the Pharaoh's name, it kinda sucks.

...Zorc's sealed away in the Puzzle and the Millennium Ring. So it's not like he could unseal himself.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

No, but getting to it was. And Yugi was essentially the reincarnation of Atem so he was essentially chosen by the puzzle.

Well, considering that Suguroku did manage to get to it eventually, it clearly wasn't beyond human ability to retrieve it either. As for Yugi solving it... yeah, that part is true.

Honestly? I think it was Priest Set who did it. Considering he was the one who carved the Epitaph on the Memory Stele that housed the Pharaoh's Memories in the first place. He's the most likely person who did it, since he was the main survivor of the whole Zorc fight.

Considering he's the one who succeeded Pharaoh Atem, it does seem likely; but considering how close they were, it seems more like he would want to honour his friend's memory. Little hard to do that with no proof of his existence; though considering everybody died in that incident...

...Where is there any evidence of Zorc Necrophades and his existence? It's not just about Zorc's existence being known. When Atem's soul returned, so did Zorc's. Atem had to be forgotten too. Since they're both sealed in the Puzzle.

Hopefully, there isn't any. It would be a bad move to try and do that and then have some tablet depict Zorc. Bad indeed. Thankfully, we haven't seen any.

Yeah..it worked perfectly. Seeing as how the Puzzle didn't end up in anyone's hands for over 3000 years until Solomon got it and brought it to Yugi. I'd say it all worked quite well.

Well... it worked better than many plans in this franchise have, yeah. Still, smashing the puzzle and scattering the pieces across the world would have done a better job; but the we'd have no plot for a show, so...

...Zorc's sealed away in the Puzzle and the Millennium Ring. So it's not like he could unseal himself.

Again, the ring should be at the bottom of the Nile or something.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Well, considering that Suguroku did manage to get to it eventually, it clearly wasn't beyond human ability to retrieve it either. As for Yugi solving it... yeah, that part is true.

Sugoroku got the Puzzle with difficulty but considering his grandson wasn't born at this time and he is Shimon's reincarnation, I think he was destined to retrieve the Puzzle.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Considering he's the one who succeeded Pharaoh Atem, it does seem likely; but considering how close they were, it seems more like he would want to honour his friend's memory. Little hard to do that with no proof of his existence; though considering everybody died in that incident...

I'm agree with this part. But when Atem is died, there is persons who know his existence like the soldiers, people... I mean, in the manga, when he uses the Gods against Bakura, people see him. He wasn't an unknown. People saw it physically.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Well... it worked better than many plans in this franchise have, yeah. Still, smashing the puzzle and scattering the pieces across the world would have done a better job; but the we'd have no plot for a show, so...

Indeed or the show would have been very different. But scattering the pieces around the world wasn't necessary because only the chosen one could resolve the Puzzle and It was sealed in a tomb that anybody, except Sugoroku, stayed alive. The only person who survives before him died shortly after he pronunced the words "The Game of Darkness". Anyway, I see the idea and it reminds a lot Tomb Raider Legend. See a quest like that in Yu-Gi-Oh! would be great.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Again, the ring should be at the bottom of the Nile or something.

Actually, I think It is better to keep the Ring by yourself and be sure anybody can retrieve it. Honda, in anime, try to throw away the Ring in the forest in Duelist Kingdom but It didn't work. I can't say about the manga, the 14 and the 31 are the only volumes I didn't sucess to get.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Well, considering that Suguroku did manage to get to it eventually, it clearly wasn't beyond human ability to retrieve it either. As for Yugi solving it... yeah, that part is true.

....Suguroku would've died had Atem's spirit not have saved him and welcomed him there in the first place. He didn't make it through the tomb on his own.

Considering he's the one who succeeded Pharaoh Atem, it does seem likely; but considering how close they were, it seems more like he would want to honour his friend's memory. Little hard to do that with no proof of his existence; though considering everybody died in that incident...

Yeah, he did, but I think acknowledging Atem's dying wish and keeping his sacrifice meaningful would trump that.

Originally Posted by Allana

Sugoroku got the Puzzle with difficulty but considering his grandson wasn't born at this time and he is Shimon's reincarnation, I think he was destined to retrieve the Puzzle.

Goddamn reincarnation plots. Great handwave for everything to make sense, I suppose, but it still seems really hokey. "Oh, X person is Y person's reincarnation." Yeah, and they managed to find object Z at exactly the right time to... nevermind.

Indeed or the show would have been very different. But scattering the pieces around the world wasn't necessary because only the chosen one could resolve the Puzzle and It was sealed in a tomb that anybody, except Sugoroku, stayed alive. The only person who survives before him died shortly after he pronounced the words "The Game of Darkness". Anyway, I see the idea and it reminds a lot Tomb Raider Legend. See a quest like that in Yu-Gi-Oh! would be great.

Take pendant. Shatter pendant into puzzle pieces. Scatter pieces all over planet. Nobody can rebuild puzzle, therefore nobody can release Games of Darkness. Linear logic; simple, and to the point. Somebody at NAS should figure that out before 5D's ends.

Actually, I think It is better to keep the Ring by yourself and be sure anybody can retrieve it. Honda, in anime, try to throw away the Ring in the forest in Duelist Kingdom but It didn't work. I can't say about the manga, the 14 and the 31 are the only volumes I didn't sucess to get.

That's after that ring already found a host for Zorc. Do that while Zorc is still dormant and nothing happens.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

....Suguroku would've died had Atem's spirit not have saved him and welcomed him there in the first place. He didn't make it through the tomb on his own.

Oh yeah, that's right.

...Wait, why exactly? I'm guessing the Pharaoh was smart enough to know that being let out means the Games of Darkness return, so isn't it in his best interest not to let him live? Or does he not feel like letting one innocent human die to, oh I don't know, KEEP THE BLOODY PLANET SAFE? Jesus...

Yeah, he did, but I think acknowledging Atem's dying wish and keeping his sacrifice meaningful would trump that.

'Kay, split the baby; he was likely commemorated, and then erased from history.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Oh yeah, that's right.

...Wait, why exactly? I'm guessing the Pharaoh was smart enough to know that being let out means the Games of Darkness return, so isn't it in his best interest not to let him live? Or does he not feel like letting one innocent human die to, oh I don't know, KEEP THE BLOODY PLANET SAFE? Jesus...

It was never his intention at all to stay sealed forever. He intended to regain his memories and defeat Zorc once and for all. Why else would he have done it to where the final game of darkness would be a duel between the Zorc and himself?

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

It was never his intention at all to stay sealed forever. He intended to regain his memories and defeat Zorc once and for all. Why else would he have done it to where the final game of darkness would be a duel between the Zorc and himself?

Because the plot wills/requires/demands it so?

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Goddamn reincarnation plots. Great handwave for everything to make sense, I suppose, but it still seems really hokey. "Oh, X person is Y person's reincarnation." Yeah, and they managed to find object Z at exactly the right time to... nevermind.

I know even If the reincarnations are a important point in the plot.

Take pendant. Shatter pendant into puzzle pieces. Scatter pieces all over planet. Nobody can rebuild puzzle, therefore nobody can release Games of Darkness. Linear logic; simple, and to the point. Somebody at NAS should figure that out before 5D's ends.

Except If the chosen one retrieve all pieces. But yeah, retrieve piece after piece is very long and It is possible one or several pieces be loose with the time. It can work or not. But, when you think the head of a King had been retrieved two years ago and It had been authentificated some days ago when It had disapeared since the XVIIIth century, then retrieve all pieces of the puzzle isn't impossible. ^^

That's after that ring already found a host for Zorc. Do that while Zorc is still dormant and nothing happens.

Not necessarily. When Laius and Jocasta learnt the prophecy about their son, they decides to abandon their son by the exposition method. But It don't work because the child is saved and the prophecy become true. However, they think have succeded to prevent the prophecy.

Originally Posted by Allana

I know even If the reincarnations are a important point in the plot.

At least somebody besides me is annoyed with reincarnation plots.

Except If the chosen one retrieve all pieces. But yeah, retrieve piece after piece is very long and It is possible one or several pieces be loose with the time. It can work or not. But, when you think the head of a King had been retrieved two years ago and It had been authenticated some days ago when It had disappeared since the XVIIIth century, then retrieve all pieces of the puzzle isn't impossible. ^^

That is true. Yes, eventually somebody would find the pieces. Then... melt the puzzle back into liquid gold? I dunno.

Not necessarily. When Laius and Jocasta learned the prophecy about their son, they decides to abandon their son by the exposition method. But It don't work because the child is saved and the prophecy become true. However, they think have succeeded to prevent the prophecy.

A reference to Oedipus? Very clever. And yes, it is difficult to prevent a prophecy.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

At least somebody besides me is annoyed with reincarnation plots.

Annoyed isn't the word I would have used. That's true, the reincarnation explain easily why the events of the series happens but I think It is interesting to see how Yugi, who is Atem's reincarnation and Bakura, who is the reincarnation of the Thief King, are differents of them on several points.

That is true. Yes, eventually somebody would find the pieces. Then... melt the puzzle back into liquid gold? I dunno.

Er... In that case, Atem's spirit would be died because in the manga, Yugi said Atem can't exist without he Puzzle.

A reference to Oedipus? Very clever. And yes, it is difficult to prevent a prophecy.

Thanks! Yes, indeed. ^^ No solution seems satisfying. Perhaps the best thing is to not know the prophecy: even If It happens, you can explain it rationally.

Originally Posted by Allana

Er... In that case, Atem's spirit would be died because in the manga, Yugi said Atem can't exist without he Puzzle.

Yes, it would have been... but without it, Zorc can never revive, because if the Puzzle is destroyed, it would destroy Zorc's soul as well.

Again, did you forget about the Millennium Ring? That wouldn't do anything.

Indeed, Zork was already awaken before he come to Domino and he meet Yugi. We don't know when Bakura got the Ring, perhaps before Yugi finish to resolve the Puzzle.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Again, did you forget about the Millennium Ring? That wouldn't do anything.

Originally Posted by Allana

Indeed, Zork was already awaken before he come to Domino and he meet Yugi. We don't know when Bakura got the Ring, perhaps before Yugi finish to resolve the Puzzle.

Damn it. Um... melt the Ring too?

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Damn it. Um... melt the Ring too?

If they are destroyed, there no plot. If the Ring and the Puzzle are melt then someone can recreate them also. You can destroy the formula but It is possible another version exists in another place.

I think its very possible if they did what you suggested and melted even 1 of the M. items something more horrible would have happened. After all these thins are drowned in Dark Magic and the was a pact for creating them. Brake the deal and you will face the consequences.