+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Showing results 1 to 50 of 64

Thread: Yuugi and Osiris

  1. Default Yuugi and Osiris

    Anyone ever looked up the "pharaoh" page of Wikipedia? Not that of the Yugioh wiki, just that of the regular Wikipedia.org. There's quite a bit of info on that page, and in the top section, there's even a bit about Osiris that could explain why that was the god card Yuugi first got, and the one that's most associated with him. I found that info just yesterday, and it was pretty interesting. To quote it, it said:

    "The pharaohs were believed later in the culture to be the incarnations of the deity Horus in life and Osiris in death. Once the cult of Isis and Osiris became prominent, pharaohs were viewed as a bridge between the god Osiris and human beings; and after death the pharaoh was believed to unite with Osiris."
    Last edited by PharaohAtem; 08/11/10 at 04:20 PM.

  2. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    I think it's been long established that the writers of this series do actually do research, even if some of it is glaringly off. But yes; that was very true, and well worth pointing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  3. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    In the light of this information, Osiris also makes an interesting bookend as well. Osiris was the first God Card obtained by Yugi, and at the same time, it was the last monster Atem summoned in the Ceremonial Duel. In addition, Yugi nullified Atem's Monster Reborn, which was not only a message to the Pharaoh that he must go to the Afterlife, but for Osiris as well. And then, Osiris vanished and went back into the Graveyard.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  4. Default

    Also interesting to note this, which I used to be able to find in the french wiki, but never found in the english for some reason:

    http://fr.academic.ru/dic.nsf/frwiki/790087

    To translate it: "Horakhti is one of the manifestations of Horus represented in the shape of a faulcon. He is the god of the rising sun. According to Egyptian tradition, Pharaoh rules from one horizon to the other (East to West) in the shape of Horakhti."

    A search in the regular wiki redirects to the Ra-Horakhti page.

    Obelisk seems to have some significance, as a building, in reference to Pharaohs as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    In the light of this information, Osiris also makes an interesting bookend as well. Osiris was the first God Card obtained by Yugi, and at the same time, it was the last monster Atem summoned in the Ceremonial Duel. In addition, Yugi nullified Atem's Monster Reborn, which was not only a message to the Pharaoh that he must go to the Afterlife, but for Osiris as well. And then, Osiris vanished and went back into the Graveyard.
    Aside from being my personal favorite of the three, Osiris also ends up being the god with the most relevance. I like your analysis of the symbolism there, very fitting. Things like these are why the other series just can't compare to the first two, imo.
    Last edited by Silver Moon; 08/12/10 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Merged posts

  5. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Hm. That would certainly explain Horakhti's armor.

    And thanks! Osiris is my favorite as well, with Ra being a close second.

    Regarding the symbolism in the other two series, while GX may be not as mythology based (at least at a first look) and 5D's focuses on a different mythology, the symbolism is there. GX is rife with alchemy, and to a lesser extent, 5D's as well. GX also had plenty of Tarot references going on. To put it in perspective, it is claimed that Western Alchemy originated in Ancient Egypt, while the Tarot cards were referenced in the original series, along with the Book of Thoth, also originating from Egypt. So one could say that the Egyptian ties ... somewhat, albeit indirectly, persist through the series, even though its roots are in DM. GX references other mythologies such as Chavin and Moche. 5D's threw in a few Genetics and Eugenics references in the most recent arc, as well as Nordic mythology.

    The other unique layer of symbolism, as you pointed it out, are the cards in the player's deck representing the Duelist's personality, or an aspect of them. This has been acknowledged by Takahashi in the Gospel of Truth. GX does follow this trend, but not as deeply, it's more like a thematic representation (eg. an Alchemist using an Alchemy deck), although in some Duelists' case it can reach pretty good levels. Such as Satou's Scar Knight and Scar Scab Knight, representing his struggle to educate the children but failing to do so, turning into a bitter and hardened man in the end. 5D's returns with a combination of the first two series, making them both thematic and symbolical decks, such as Stardust Dragon representing Yusei's martyr personality with its negation ability, requiring Stardust Dragon to be sacrificed. Yusei used to own Junk monsters to represent his knack for building things from junk, such as his D-Wheel. Or there's Black Rose Dragon for Aki, who may be as beautiful as a rose, her thorns show how she's distant from everyone, disliking majority of the people for looking down on her, considering her a monster, until she's approached by Yusei, the martyr, eventually the rest of the group.

    The issue is that in the other two series these references are rather obscure and not as easily observed unless you have a geek or two around who will catch them and point their existence out. So while the spinoffs may have a different vibe from the original series, it can be seen that the writers, in fact, did their research. Fortunately, a person known as The Mad Poet noted tons of these little references for the rest of us to read, if you are interested.
    Last edited by Arynis; 08/11/10 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Re-worded a small part.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  6. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    Hm. That would certainly explain Horakhti's armor.

    And thanks! Osiris is my favorite as well, with Ra being a close second.

    Regarding the symbolism in the other two series, while GX may be not as mythology based (at least at a first look) and 5D's focuses on a different mythology, the symbolism is there. GX is rife with alchemy, and to a lesser extent, 5D's as well. GX also had plenty of Tarot references going on. To put it in perspective, it is claimed that Western Alchemy originated in Ancient Egypt, while the Tarot cards were referenced in the original series, along with the Book of Thoth, also originating from Egypt. So one could say that Egyptian mythology quietly persists across the entire franchise, even though its roots are in DM. GX references other mythologies such as Chavin and Moche. 5D's threw in a few Genetics and Eugenics references in the most recent arc, as well as Nordic mythology.
    So apparently everything is from Ancient Egypt. Huh. You learn something new every day.
    Last edited by DarkDust_Dragon; 08/11/10 at 10:53 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  7. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    I was referring to (Western) alchemy and the Book of Thoth (from which Aleister Crowley created his Thoth Tarot), DarkDust. And I didn't mean it as a direct thing. Just as concepts originating from Egypt.

    Eh. I should have said "Ties to Egypt" or something. I'm not sure what are you getting at, exactly...?
    Last edited by Arynis; 08/11/10 at 08:16 PM.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  8. Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    [BG]
    Posts
    4,862
    Group
    Senior Member
    Blog Entries
    1
    Infractions
    1/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    It'll be awesome if this thread turns out to be DM mythology concerned, since there are many interesting facts in the Ancient Egyptian mythology, that deserve to be mentioned and discussed.
    Not to mention there are also some pieces of the Greek mythology also mentioned in the anime, which aren't so noticeable. Typical example are the Harpy Ladies. x)

  9. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    I was referring to (Western) alchemy and the Book of Thoth (from which Aleister Crowley created his Thoth Tarot), DarkDust. And I didn't mean it as a direct thing. Just as concepts originating from Egypt.

    Eh. I should have said "Ties to Egypt" or something. I'm not sure what are you getting at, exactly...?
    I was making a joke about the fact that everything seems to tie back to Egypt, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lia View Post
    It'll be awesome if this thread turns out to be DM mythology concerned, since there are many interesting facts in the Ancient Egyptian mythology, that deserve to be mentioned and discussed.
    Not to mention there are also some pieces of the Greek mythology also mentioned in the anime, which aren't so noticeable. Typical example are the Harpy Ladies. x)
    The entire Doma Season basically came from Greek Mythology. The Spirit Monsters are from Shintoism. We have Inca, Nasca, and Norse Mythology as well (obviously). So yeah, mythology is big. It's just that with 5D's, science played a big part. GX was basically the supernatural in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  10. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    The entire Doma Season basically came from Shin Yoshida's a55hole. The Spirit Monsters are from his toilet.
    Fixx'd that for you. No need to thank me.

  11. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    House of Wolves
    Posts
    10,312
    Group
    Moderator
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Spirit monsters are Konami creations, not Yoshida. Why do you think his first monster was Yata? derpADVERTderp



  12. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    Fixx'd that for you. No need to thank me.
    Don't worry, I'm not going go. Because it really is true. Look where the Three Dragons' names come from. Philosophers and texts related to Plato and Socrates. The story of Atlantis is also from Ancient Greece, including mentions of Orichalcum (give it back Jim!). And the spirits are indeed from stories in Shintoism. Granted, a lot of aspects were forged entirely from the writers' twisted minds, there is in fact a historical basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  13. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    I was making a joke about the fact that everything seems to tie back to Egypt, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with it.
    Oh, sorry. XD It was a bit hard to figure out where you were getting at with the Tropes alone. I see now.

    The entire Doma Season basically came from Greek Mythology. The Spirit Monsters are from Shintoism. We have Inca, Nasca, and Norse Mythology as well (obviously). So yeah, mythology is big. It's just that with 5D's, science played a big part. GX was basically the supernatural in general.
    While Doma carries references to Plato, the tale of Atlantis itself actually originated from (yes, again) Egypt. Here's what Poet said about it (Note: He said this in regards to GX, not the Doma arc.):

    The original Atlantis story is not, in fact, Greek. This is a huge pet peeve for me and I throw things at the television/radio/computer every time I hear about some jackasses using Plato's story rather than the original source to look for the place (regardless of whether it actually existed or not). Three other Greek dudes actually tried to kife this story before Plato finally found the right way to do it to make it popular with the home audience, but originally it was an Egyptian cautionary tale brought to us by our Khenti friends. In fact, it's the story about how man originally lost the right to know and use the secrets of the Third World through their hubris and general asshattery and abuse of those gifts and powers. Obviously this taking back of their secrets didn't last long, because we got alchemy back courtesy of the epic battle that was Isis' Va-Va-Voom vs Amnael's Libido (more on that later), but the story was passed down, in theory, so we would never repeat those mistakes. I don't think this is necessarily relevant or anything, it's just funny as hell to me that they threw Atlantis in here considering the surrounding contexts.
    So while Doma is more rife with references to Plato, the tale itself is still from Egypt. Make of that what you will.

    The entire Doma Season basically came from Shin Yoshida's a55hole. The Spirit Monsters are from his toilet.
    That's haunting.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  14. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    Oh, sorry. XD It was a bit hard to figure out where you were getting at with the Tropes alone. I see now.
    Sorry about that.

    While Doma carries references to Plato, the tale of Atlantis itself actually originated from (yes, again) Egypt. Here's what Poet said about it (Note: He said this in regards to GX, not the Doma arc.):
    The original Atlantis story is not, in fact, Greek. This is a huge pet peeve for me and I throw things at the television/radio/computer every time I hear about some jackasses using Plato's story rather than the original source to look for the place (regardless of whether it actually existed or not). Three other Greek dudes actually tried to kife this story before Plato finally found the right way to do it to make it popular with the home audience, but originally it was an Egyptian cautionary tale brought to us by our Khenti friends. In fact, it's the story about how man originally lost the right to know and use the secrets of the Third World through their hubris and general asshattery and abuse of those gifts and powers. Obviously this taking back of their secrets didn't last long, because we got alchemy back courtesy of the epic battle that was Isis' Va-Va-Voom vs Amnael's Libido (more on that later), but the story was passed down, in theory, so we would never repeat those mistakes. I don't think this is necessarily relevant or anything, it's just funny as hell to me that they threw Atlantis in here considering the surrounding contexts.


    So while Doma is more rife with references to Plato, the tale itself is still from Egypt. Make of that what you will.


    That was more my point than the actual fact. Yes, it's true; Egypt has the first recorded stories of Atlantis, but the ones presented by Plato are what were references because they are what people know. So, I guess they only half did the research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  15. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    House of Wolves
    Posts
    10,312
    Group
    Moderator
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    Don't worry, I'm not going go. Because it really is true. Look where the Three Dragons' names come from. Philosophers and texts related to Plato and Socrates. The story of Atlantis is also from Ancient Greece, including mentions of Orichalcum (give it back Jim!). And the spirits are indeed from stories in Shintoism. Granted, a lot of aspects were forged entirely from the writers' twisted minds, there is in fact a historical basis.
    I'm sure he knows that, though. I'm not trying to downplay your information, but that's been somewhat common knowledge tot he fans since around the time the original series ended, which is around the time Poet joined the old old old forums, iirc. Not 100% on that, because I only lurked back then and my time on the /ancient/ Janime Fourms as a member was very short before some guy started messing the site up with viruses, or some shit.

    ...anyway, that's been known about and repeated quite a few times.
    Last edited by Ragna; 08/11/10 at 11:52 PM.



  16. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    Sorry about that.



    That was more my point than the actual fact. Yes, it's true; Egypt has the first recorded stories of Atlantis, but the ones presented by Plato are what were references because they are what people know. So, I guess they only half did the research.
    ...I was more taking a stab at Doma's filler plot which basically breaks the canon with its injection of derpderp DUEL MONSTER SPIRIT WORLD derp, and Atlantis creating Duel Monsters first. You took me seriously. I already knew that.

    It does have a historical base and isn't a complete asspull. It's just a plot element, with historical basis, that just contradicts the already established world mechanics of the story.

  17. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    Hm. That would certainly explain Horakhti's armor.

    And thanks! Osiris is my favorite as well, with Ra being a close second.

    Regarding the symbolism in the other two series, while GX may be not as mythology based (at least at a first look) and 5D's focuses on a different mythology, the symbolism is there. GX is rife with alchemy, and to a lesser extent, 5D's as well. GX also had plenty of Tarot references going on. To put it in perspective, it is claimed that Western Alchemy originated in Ancient Egypt, while the Tarot cards were referenced in the original series, along with the Book of Thoth, also originating from Egypt. So one could say that the Egyptian ties ... somewhat, albeit indirectly, persist through the series, even though its roots are in DM. GX references other mythologies such as Chavin and Moche. 5D's threw in a few Genetics and Eugenics references in the most recent arc, as well as Nordic mythology.

    The other unique layer of symbolism, as you pointed it out, are the cards in the player's deck representing the Duelist's personality, or an aspect of them. This has been acknowledged by Takahashi in the Gospel of Truth. GX does follow this trend, but not as deeply, it's more like a thematic representation (eg. an Alchemist using an Alchemy deck), although in some Duelists' case it can reach pretty good levels. Such as Satou's Scar Knight and Scar Scab Knight, representing his struggle to educate the children but failing to do so, turning into a bitter and hardened man in the end. 5D's returns with a combination of the first two series, making them both thematic and symbolical decks, such as Stardust Dragon representing Yusei's martyr personality with its negation ability, requiring Stardust Dragon to be sacrificed. Yusei used to own Junk monsters to represent his knack for building things from junk, such as his D-Wheel. Or there's Black Rose Dragon for Aki, who may be as beautiful as a rose, her thorns show how she's distant from everyone, disliking majority of the people for looking down on her, considering her a monster, until she's approached by Yusei, the martyr, eventually the rest of the group.

    The issue is that in the other two series these references are rather obscure and not as easily observed unless you have a geek or two around who will catch them and point their existence out. So while the spinoffs may have a different vibe from the original series, it can be seen that the writers, in fact, did their research. Fortunately, a person known as The Mad Poet noted tons of these little references for the rest of us to read, if you are interested.
    To address your post in order, first of all, what do you mean about Horakhti's armor? I'm not sure I understand that part.

    Secondly, I'm just not as impressed with alchemy since I saw Fullmetal Alchemist. Or at least, saw the first few episodes of the first series and lost interest when the plot veered in a different direction from the manga. Long story short, but I've pretty much lost all interest in both the manga and even the new anime series. And I have to admit it's especially the mythology part that interests me, thus the first two series. And the alchemy they use in that series is somehow better done because it farther reaching consequences. Well, as I mentioned in a separate thread, for me the basic concepts behind Yugioh are the same as those in Yoroiden Samurai Troopers: friendship and the evil of human nature. YST was my first anime and I still deeply enjoy it because how much I love the characters. There aren’t anywhere near as many in YST as in Yugioh, but the basic concept of strong friendship is the same. I just don’t think of the other Yugioh series as being anywhere near as impressive as the first two.

  18. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem View Post
    To address your post in order, first of all, what do you mean about Horakhti's armor? I'm not sure I understand that part.
    It's easier to show a picture rather than try to describe it, I think. I meant how her costume/armor resembles Ra, or a falcon, which I was getting at to in response to your Horakhti post.

    Secondly, I'm just not as impressed with alchemy since I saw Fullmetal Alchemist. Or at least, saw the first few episodes of the first series and lost interest when the plot veered in a different direction from the manga. Long story short, but I've pretty much lost all interest in both the manga and even the new anime series. And I have to admit it's especially the mythology part that interests me, thus the first two series. And the alchemy they use in that series is somehow better done because it farther reaching consequences.
    I can't speak for the series since I haven't seen anything of it, but our resident Alchemy geek (Poet, who I quoted back there) isn't too fond of the series either, due to how people think the concept of Alchemy originated from the series and whatnot, I believe.

    Well, as I mentioned in a separate thread, for me the basic concepts behind Yugioh are the same as those in Yoroiden Samurai Troopers: friendship and the evil of human nature. YST was my first anime and I still deeply enjoy it because how much I love the characters. There aren’t anywhere near as many in YST as in Yugioh, but the basic concept of strong friendship is the same. I just don’t think of the other Yugioh series as being anywhere near as impressive as the first two.
    Fair enough.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  19. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    ...I was more taking a stab at Doma's filler plot which basically breaks the canon with its injection of derpderp DUEL MONSTER SPIRIT WORLD derp, and Atlantis creating Duel Monsters first. You took me seriously. I already knew that.
    Yeah, I know. The "Sorry" line was to Arynis for my messy coding. Don't take credit where it is not due.

    It does have a historical base and isn't a complete asspull. It's just a plot element, with historical basis, that just contradicts the already established world mechanics of the story.
    *Sigh* This again. Yes, it contradicts the previous values; that's what happens when extra stuff goes into an anime that otherwise dogmatically follows the manga. Look at the first FMA anime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  20. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    It's easier to show a picture rather than try to describe it, I think. I meant how her costume/armor resembles Ra, or a falcon, which I was getting at to in response to your Horakhti post.
    Oh, I thought you meant something else, but yeah, I understand, thanks.

    I can't speak for the series since I haven't seen anything of it, but our resident Alchemy geek (Poet, who I quoted back there) isn't too fond of the series either, due to how people think the concept of Alchemy originated from the series and whatnot, I believe.
    For me it was partly disappointment, and perhaps partly the same reason as your friend that I disliked it. It's a little like Zegapain, I guess... the series itself was vaguely interesting up until the end, which to me was a huge disappointment. About Zegapain, I mean.

  21. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    I can't speak for the series since I haven't seen anything of it, but our resident Alchemy geek (Poet, who I quoted back there) isn't too fond of the series either, due to how people think the concept of Alchemy originated from the series and whatnot, I believe.
    Wow. Just, just wow. Here's a hint everyone: If a Japanese word for it predates the anime itself, it is not an invented concept. (Renkinjutsi, BTW, literally translates as "Process of refining Gold", its actual purpose).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  22. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    Wow. Just, just wow. Here's a hint everyone: If a Japanese word for it predates the anime itself, it is not an invented concept. (Renkinjutsi, BTW, literally translates as "Process of refining Gold", its actual purpose).
    I don't think anyone is saying that what people think is fact, it's just what they thought. I didn't know much about alchemy myself before this series. No need to be a smartass about it.

  23. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Though, the majority of the people don't know too much about alchemy apart from "turn metals into gold". Daitokuji even calls out on this one in GX. Alternately, the goal of Alchemy is reaching enlightment. But. Anyway.

    (I was a bit torn if this should have been posted into the card mysticism thread or this one... :x But I picked this one for now.)

    After... getting my hands on lots of Alchemy books (and related stuff), I came across a book on Egyptian magic, titled appropriately as Egyptian Magic, written by E. A. Wallis Budge, 1901. The following is one part of the preface. Parts especially relevant to the series are bolded. (Not putting the quotation in quote code because that makes it a pain to read in my opinion.)

    "Egyptian magic dates from the time when the predynastic and prehistoric dwellers in Egypt believed that the earth, and the underworld, and the air, and the sky were peopled with countless beings, visible and invisible, which were held to be friendly or unfriendly to man according as the operations of nature, which they were supposed to direct, were favourable or unfavourable to him. In -nature and attributes these beings were thought by primitive man to closely resemble himself and to possess all human passions, and emotions, and weaknesses, and defects; and the chief object of magic was to give man the pre-eminence over such beings. The favour of the beings who were placable and friendly to man might be obtained by means of gifts and offerings, but the cessation of hostilities on the part of those that were implacable and unfriendly could only be obtained by wheedling, and cajolery, and flattery, or by making use of an amulet, or secret name, or magical formula, or figure, or picture which had the effect of bringing to the aid of the mortal who possessed it the power of a being that was mightier than the foe who threatened to do evil to him. The magic of most early nations aimed at causing the transference of power from a supernatural being to man, whereby he was to be enabled to obtain superhuman results and to become for a time as mighty as the original possessor of the power; but the object of Egyptian magic was to endow man with the means of compelling both friendly and hostile powers, nay, at a later time, even God Himself, to do what he wished, whether the were willing or not. The belief in magic, the word being used in its best sense, is older in Egypt than the belief in God, and it is certain that a very large number of the Egyptian religious ceremonies, which were performed in later times as an integral part of a highly spiritual worship, had their origin in superstitious customs which date from a period when God, under any name or in any form, was unconceived in the minds of the Egyptians. Indeed it is probable that even the use of the sign which represents an axe, and which stands the hieroglyphic character both for God and "god," indicates that this weapon and tool was employed in the performance of some ceremony connected with religious magic in prehistoric, or at any rate in predynastic times, when it in some mysterious way symbolized the presence of a supreme Power. But be this as it may, it is quite certain that magic and religion developed and flourished side by side in Egypt throughout all periods of her history, and that any investigation which we may make of the one necessarily includes an examination of the other."
    • We know the people of Egypt in Yu-Gi-Oh! believed that evil spirits lived in the hearts of men, which they sealed in tablets upon obtaining the Millennium Items.
    • Said monsters reflected their owners.
    • The amulet would be the Millennium Items here, the secret name could be Atem's name, which caused Horakhti to be summoned. Magical formula could be the magic in general, like how the story was passed down as "Magicians who used monsters to fight each other". The novelization of Pyramid of Light also describes Pegasus deciphering the magic words found in the images of the monsters. The picture obviously refers to the tablets, and pictures are also shown to have important in the modern game as well.
    • Atem did control the Egyptian Gods, and Simon summoned Exodia.

    And well, that's just the preface. There could be much more to it, but I thought I'd stop by and share this. And the book itself is like 100 pages long.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  24. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    Though, the majority of the people don't know too much about alchemy apart from "turn metals into gold". Daitokuji even calls out on this one in GX. Alternately, the goal of Alchemy is reaching enlightment. But. Anyway.


    There are a lot of uses for Alchemy; but refining Gold was the one people were most interested in. Think of the vast wealth that could be created by forging gold from abundant, inexpensive elements like carbon. Alas, physics says no.

    After... getting my hands on lots of Alchemy books (and related stuff), I came across a book on Egyptian magic, titled appropriately as Egyptian Magic, written by E. A. Wallis Budge, 1901. The following is one part of the preface. Parts especially relevant to the series are bolded. (Not putting the quotation in quote code because that makes it a pain to read in my opinion.)

    "Egyptian magic dates from the time when the predynastic and prehistoric dwellers in Egypt believed that the earth, and the underworld, and the air, and the sky were peopled with countless beings, visible and invisible, which were held to be friendly or unfriendly to man according as the operations of nature, which they were supposed to direct, were favourable or unfavourable to him. In -nature and attributes these beings were thought by primitive man to closely resemble himself and to possess all human passions, and emotions, and weaknesses, and defects; and the chief object of magic was to give man the pre-eminence over such beings. The favour of the beings who were placable and friendly to man might be obtained by means of gifts and offerings, but the cessation of hostilities on the part of those that were implacable and unfriendly could only be obtained by wheedling, and cajolery, and flattery, or by making use of an amulet, or secret name, or magical formula, or figure, or picture which had the effect of bringing to the aid of the mortal who possessed it the power of a being that was mightier than the foe who threatened to do evil to him. The magic of most early nations aimed at causing the transference of power from a supernatural being to man, whereby he was to be enabled to obtain superhuman results and to become for a time as mighty as the original possessor of the power; but the object of Egyptian magic was to endow man with the means of compelling both friendly and hostile powers, nay, at a later time, even God Himself, to do what he wished, whether the were willing or not. The belief in magic, the word being used in its best sense, is older in Egypt than the belief in God, and it is certain that a very large number of the Egyptian religious ceremonies, which were performed in later times as an integral part of a highly spiritual worship, had their origin in superstitious customs which date from a period when God, under any name or in any form, was unconceived in the minds of the Egyptians. Indeed it is probable that even the use of the sign which represents an axe, and which stands the hieroglyphic character both for God and "god," indicates that this weapon and tool was employed in the performance of some ceremony connected with religious magic in prehistoric, or at any rate in predynastic times, when it in some mysterious way symbolized the presence of a supreme Power. But be this as it may, it is quite certain that magic and religion developed and flourished side by side in Egypt throughout all periods of her history, and that any investigation which we may make of the one necessarily includes an examination of the other."
    • We know the people of Egypt in Yu-Gi-Oh! believed that evil spirits lived in the hearts of men, which they sealed in tablets upon obtaining the Millennium Items.
    • Said monsters reflected their owners.
    • The amulet would be the Millennium Items here, the secret name could be Atem's name, which caused Horakhti to be summoned. Magical formula could be the magic in general, like how the story was passed down as "Magicians who used monsters to fight each other". The novelization of Pyramid of Light also describes Pegasus deciphering the magic words found in the images of the monsters. The picture obviously refers to the tablets, and pictures are also shown to have important in the modern game as well.
    • Atem did control the Egyptian Gods, and Simon summoned Exodia.

    And well, that's just the preface. There could be much more to it, but I thought I'd stop by and share this. And the book itself is like 100 pages long.
    100 pages is short for a book, but that quote speaks volumes. You gotta wonder if the people who created this plot (Yugioh's I mean) actually knew about this, or just stumbled across it (I'm putting plans for a novel series together. You'd be amazed how many things I accidentally referenced in doing so.).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  25. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    There are a lot of uses for Alchemy; but refining Gold was the one people were most interested in. Think of the vast wealth that could be created by forging gold from abundant, inexpensive elements like carbon. Alas, physics says no.
    From what I've read in a book about Alchemy, the reason the "turn metals into Gold" version was the most known one is because there were several phony alchemists who claimed they are, in fact, capable of turning metal into gold. Of course, they couldn't do it. However, "real" Alchemy was practiced in secret, and most writings were rich in allegory and metaphors so only the chosen few could learn the secrets. And thus, the phony alchemists were remembered by people, while genuine Alchemy was shrouded into mystery.

    But hey, that was way before Modern Chemistry was developed. You can't blame them for not knowing it's not really possible to turn metals into gold. And as TV Tropes put it, it would also double as You Fail Economy Forever, because widespread gold would naturally kill its worth. XD


    100 pages is short for a book, but that quote speaks volumes. You gotta wonder if the people who created this plot (Yugioh's I mean) actually knew about this, or just stumbled across it (I'm putting plans for a novel series together. You'd be amazed how many things I accidentally referenced in doing so.).
    I believe Takahashi actually researched Egyptian Mythology and took several trips there.

    Anyway, more Egyptian Magic geekery. Again, bolded the relevant parts. (I wonder if I should spoiler tag the text to save space... Eh, I'll do it. )

    Spoiler: Quotation inside -- saving space
    "From the religious books of ancient Egypt we learn that the power possessed by a priest or man
    who was skilled in the knowledge and working of magic was believed to be almost boundless.

    By pronouncing certain words or names of power in the proper manner and in the proper tone
    of voice he could heal the sick, and cast out the evil spirits which caused pain and suffering in
    those who were diseased, and restore the dead to life, and bestow upon the dead man the power
    to transform the corruptible into an incorruptible body, wherein the soul might live to all
    eternity. His words enabled human beings to assume divers forms at will, and to project their
    souls into animals and other creatures; and in obedience to his commands, inanimate figures
    and pictures became living beings and things which hastened to perform his behests. The
    powers of nature acknowledged his might, and wind and rain,
    p. xi
    storm and tempest, river and sea, and disease and death worked evil and ruin upon his foes, and
    upon the enemies of those who were provided with the knowledge of the words which he had
    wrested from the gods of heaven, and earth, and the underworld. Inanimate nature likewise
    obeyed such words of power, and even the world itself came into existence through the
    utterance of a word by Thoth; by their means the earth could be rent asunder, and the waters
    forsaking their nature could be piled up in a heap, and even the sun's course in the heavens
    could be stayed by a word. No god, or spirit, or devil, or fiend, could resist words of power, and
    the Egyptians invoked their aid in the smallest as well as in the greatest events of their lives. To
    him that was versed in the lore contained in the books of the "double house of life" the future
    was as well known as the past, and neither time nor distance could limit the operations of his
    power; the mysteries of life and death were laid bare before him, and he could draw aside the
    veil which hid the secrets of fate and destiny from the knowledge of ordinary mortals.
    Now if views such as these concerning the magician's power were held by the educated folk of
    ancient Egypt
    there is little to wonder at when we find that beliefs and superstitions of the most
    degraded character flourished with rank luxuriance among the peasants
    p. xii
    and working classes of that country, who failed to understand the symbolism of the elaborate
    ceremonies which were performed in the temples, and who were too ignorant to distinguish the
    spiritual conceptions which lay at their root--to meet the religious needs of such people the
    magician, and in later times the priest, found it necessary to provide pageants and ceremonies
    which appealed chiefly to the senses, and following their example, unscrupulous but clever men
    took advantage of the ignorance of the general public and pretended to knowledge of the
    supernatural, and laid claim to the possession of power over gods, and spirits, and demons.
    Such false knowledge and power they sold for money, and for purposes of gain the so-called
    magician was ready to further any sordid transaction or wicked scheme which his dupe wished
    to carry out. This magic degenerated into sorcery, and demonology, and wit craft, and those
    who dealt in it were regarded as associates of the Devil, and servants of the powers of darkness,
    and workers of the "black art." In the "white" and "black" magic of the Egyptians most of the
    magic known in the other countries of the world may be found; it is impossible yet to say
    exactly how much the beliefs and religious systems of other nations were influenced by them,
    but there is no, doubt that certain views and religious ideas of many heathen and
    p. xiii
    Christian sects may be traced directly to them. Many interesting proofs might be adduced in
    support of this statement, but the limits of this book will not admit of their being given here."
    • We know that the Priests who held the Millennium Items had the most power. People whose Ka were sufficiently trained also proved to be powerful. (Ie. Aknadin training people underground to strengthen their Ka.)
    • I believe most of the Millennium Item and monster spirit fiasco was known by the Pharaoh and the Pirests only, and well, Thief King Bakura because he witnessed the massacre at Kul Elna. Though, didn't Shada and Seto went to take trips to look for people with a strong Ka? Although I still don't think it was common knowledge...
    • It was told that the Millennium Tome holds the secrets of possessing the power over gods, spirits and demons.
    • The White and Black magic was bought up in the card game as well, a small chart is bought up during the first Yugi vs. Pegasus duels. There are four types of magic users: Illusionists, White Magic, Black Magic, Demons and Devils.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  26. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Anyone who hates FMA needs to find their soul, shove it back down their mouths, swallow it with a glass of water or your beverage of choice and watch FMA: Brotherhood in full. Because FMA pwns. Hard. One of the best recent Shonen series to date. Made me cry many man tears it did.

    @Arynis

    Wow, that's very interesting. Takahashi clearly did his research.

    That was very interesting, thanks so much for sharing this.

  27. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    From what I've read in a book about Alchemy, the reason the "turn metals into Gold" version was the most known one is because there were several phony alchemists who claimed they are, in fact, capable of turning metal into gold. Of course, they couldn't do it. However, "real" Alchemy was practiced in secret, and most writings were rich in allegory and metaphors so only the chosen few could learn the secrets. And thus, the phony alchemists were remembered by people, while genuine Alchemy was shrouded into mystery.
    That's true as well; but think about it. Creating Gold at a time when it was very tight in Europe (which is one of the reasons people came to the New World) seems very applicable. Even if the rest was kept secret, if somebody offered a way to make you some gold for cheap, would you not go for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    Anyone who hates FMA needs to find their soul, shove it back down their mouths, swallow it with a glass of water or your beverage of choice and watch FMA: Brotherhood in full. Because FMA pwns. Hard. One of the best recent Shonen series to date. Made me cry many man tears it did.
    Hey, I'm not hating. I'm just saying that anybody who doesn't know that Alchemy is a real world concept (if not a real science) fail too many things to name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  28. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    Hey, I'm not hating. I'm just saying that anybody who doesn't know that Alchemy is a real world concept (if not a real science) fail too many things to name.
    LOL that wasn't directed towards you. More towards PharaohAtem and MadPoet, so they'd actually watch it and see for themselves before knockin' it.

  29. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    But hey, that was way before Modern Chemistry was developed. You can't blame them for not knowing it's not really possible to turn metals into gold. And as TV Tropes put it, it would also double as You Fail Economy Forever, because widespread gold would naturally kill its worth. XD[/FONT]

    I believe Takahashi actually researched Egyptian Mythology and took several trips there.

    Anyway, more Egyptian Magic geekery. Again, bolded the relevant parts. (I wonder if I should spoiler tag the text to save space... Eh, I'll do it. )
    A few things. First of all, I do believe I also heard mentioned somewhere before that Takahashi visited Egypt. And your quote, which for some reason I could not see until I quoted this message, was very interesting. It brings to mind the idea that sickness is in part a state of mind, ie positive people tend to get sick less often. This even makes me think of the fantasy series "Sword of Truth" and its late-introduced concept of creative magic, where you can basically create your own spells using the language of symbols and your own desire to make something happen. Secondly, in Yugioh, during the creation of the Millenium Items, was it ever mentioned that they *created* gold? I was always under the impression that they simply melted gold they already had and combined it with the people they burned alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    Anyone who hates FMA needs to find their soul, shove it back down their mouths, swallow it with a glass of water or your beverage of choice and watch FMA: Brotherhood in full. Because FMA pwns. Hard. One of the best recent Shonen series to date. Made me cry many man tears it did.
    First of all, why would you even say something like that? I'd like to recommend to anyone series like Soukyuu no Fafner, Yoroiden Samurai Troopers and a few others because I find them as beautiful as you do FMA, but I'm not basically gonna accuse them of not having a soul just because they don't like those series as much as I do. Secondly, it's not that I can't appreciate the series, and I certainly don't hate it, but rather that I simply lost interest in it. It having too many characters played a huge part, I must admit, and most of these characters were somewhat boring and/or generic imo. I tend to dislike series that have too many characters and most in fact don't handle it properly, or in a way that makes all characters interesting, at the least.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    Hey, I'm not hating. I'm just saying that anybody who doesn't know that Alchemy is a real world concept (if not a real science) fail too many things to name.
    Yare yare... You can't make that kind of judgement call about anybody, because everyone knows different things. To give an extreme example here, if a doctor knows something you know nothing about, are you automatically a loser or a failure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    LOL that wasn't directed towards you. More towards PharaohAtem and MadPoet, so they'd actually watch it and see for themselves before knockin' it.
    Please pay attention to the things I write *before* replying to them. I *did* watch the first series, a number of episodes of it. Technically I even watched a few english episodes on YTV with Mute on. The basic concept of the show was somewhat interesting, but after a while of watching the anime diverge I lost interest in the manga as well, and therefore in the entire series. So it's not so much that I didn't give it a chance, but that it couldn't hold my interest.

  30. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem
    First of all, why would you even say something like that? I'd like to recommend to anyone series like Soukyuu no Fafner, Yoroiden Samurai Troopers and a few others because I find them as beautiful as you do FMA, but I'm not basically gonna accuse them of not having a soul just because they don't like those series as much as I do. Secondly, it's not that I can't appreciate the series, and I certainly don't hate it, but rather that I simply lost interest in it. It having too many characters played a huge part, I must admit, and most of these characters were somewhat boring and/or generic imo. I tend to dislike series that have too many characters and most in fact don't handle it properly, or in a way that makes all characters interesting, at the least.
    ....You took me WAAAAAAAAAAY too seriously.

    Please pay attention to the things I write *before* replying to them. I *did* watch the first series, a number of episodes of it. Technically I even watched a few english episodes on YTV with Mute on. The basic concept of the show was somewhat interesting, but after a while of watching the anime diverge I lost interest in the manga as well, and therefore in the entire series. So it's not so much that I didn't give it a chance, but that it couldn't hold my interest.
    Joke. I thought my facetious, exaggerated statement made it clear I was clearly being lighthearted.

    And I was recommending FMA: Brotherhood, the second anime series, NOT the first. The first anime sucks. The second one is good and actually follows the original story of the manga, but to each their own, I suppose.

  31. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    ....You took me WAAAAAAAAAAY too seriously.
    I don't really think that's something that should be said even as a joke... especially because it doesn't sound like a joke.

    Joke. I thought my facetious, exaggerated statement made it clear I was clearly being lighthearted.

    And I was recommending FMA: Brotherhood, the second anime series, NOT the first. The first anime sucks. The second one is good and actually follows the original story of the manga, but to each their own, I suppose.
    Sorry, you gave me the impression you hadn't understood what I had said.

  32. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    Wow, that's very interesting. Takahashi clearly did his research.

    That was very interesting, thanks so much for sharing this.
    You're welcome! I'll try reading this book some more to see if anything relevant pops up later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    That's true as well; but think about it. Creating Gold at a time when it was very tight in Europe (which is one of the reasons people came to the New World) seems very applicable. Even if the rest was kept secret, if somebody offered a way to make you some gold for cheap, would you not go for it?
    That's true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    LOL that wasn't directed towards you. More towards PharaohAtem and MadPoet, so they'd actually watch it and see for themselves before knockin' it.
    I only said Poet disliked the show for some of its fans thinking alchemy originated from that show, and getting various things wrong regarding alchemy. Seems to be more of a dislike towards some of the fans rather than the series itself to me.

    Again, I have no clear information on his thoughts on the series. >.>;


    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem View Post
    A few things. First of all, I do believe I also heard mentioned somewhere before that Takahashi visited Egypt. And your quote, which for some reason I could not see until I quoted this message, was very interesting. It brings to mind the idea that sickness is in part a state of mind, ie positive people tend to get sick less often. This even makes me think of the fantasy series "Sword of Truth" and its late-introduced concept of creative magic, where you can basically create your own spells using the language of symbols and your own desire to make something happen. Secondly, in Yugioh, during the creation of the Millenium Items, was it ever mentioned that they *created* gold? I was always under the impression that they simply melted gold they already had and combined it with the people they burned alive.
    Bah, must be the spoiler tag bug again. Usually happens because of my FONT tag, from what I discovered.

    I'm not quite sure. I know Yu-Gi-Oh! Mysteries had a detailed page on the creation of the Millennium Items, but it's all in Japanese. I can't find the exact page at the moment, but I remember it was a rather colorful table chart.
    Last edited by Arynis; 08/13/10 at 07:47 PM.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  33. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    Bah, must be the spoiler tag bug again. Usually happens because of my FONT tag, from what I discovered.

    I'm not quite sure. I know Yu-Gi-Oh! Mysteries had a detailed page on the creation of the Millennium Items, but it's all in Japanese. I can't find the exact page at the moment, but I remember it was a rather colorful table chart.
    Yeah, I've begun to remove any font tags from my replies, whether I quote them or use them myself, unless necessary, ie if there's a lot of text and something needs to stand out. If you ever find that page again, and have a high enough quality scan, maybe I'll have a look. Hopefully it'll have some furigana to help me along. Btw, what you mentioned, is it a book or a webpage or what?

  34. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem View Post
    Yeah, I've begun to remove any font tags from my replies, whether I quote them or use them myself, unless necessary, ie if there's a lot of text and something needs to stand out. If you ever find that page again, and have a high enough quality scan, maybe I'll have a look. Hopefully it'll have some furigana to help me along. Btw, what you mentioned, is it a book or a webpage or what?
    http://www.geocities.jp/yugioh_mysteries/fremma.html

    It's a handy little website, created by a fan. It contains a lot of Egypt-related information, and some other nifty analyses. Most of it is text, but sometimes charts are in picture form. It's the site which made me want to look at the series from a closer view, it's that awesome.

    If I find the page, I'll post it, of course. One bit I recall is some detail about the materials, like what kind of material for the Millennium Items made sense to use in that time period. But yeah, rusty memory, as I just skimmed over the page and forgot about it.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  35. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    LOL that wasn't directed towards you. More towards PharaohAtem and MadPoet, so they'd actually watch it and see for themselves before knockin' it.
    Okay. Cool. Glad we're clear about that now. 'Cause FMA is one of my faves.

    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem View Post
    Yare yare... You can't make that kind of judgment call about anybody, because everyone knows different things. To give an extreme example here, if a doctor knows something you know nothing about, are you automatically a loser or a failure?
    That's medicine, which is complicated even to a tenured doctor. Alchemy is a common-knowledge science/spirituality/concept that has been featured in more media than I can count. Completely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  36. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    http://www.geocities.jp/yugioh_mysteries/fremma.html

    It's a handy little website, created by a fan. It contains a lot of Egypt-related information, and some other nifty analyses. Most of it is text, but sometimes charts are in picture form. It's the site which made me want to look at the series from a closer view, it's that awesome.

    If I find the page, I'll post it, of course. One bit I recall is some detail about the materials, like what kind of material for the Millennium Items made sense to use in that time period. But yeah, rusty memory, as I just skimmed over the page and forgot about it.
    Thanks! Oh, so it's one page on that website, and the URL you gave is the main page, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    That's medicine, which is complicated even to a tenured doctor. Alchemy is a common-knowledge science/spirituality/concept that has been featured in more media than I can count. Completely different.
    Again, that's not up to you to decide. Many people in the world might have never heard of alchemy at all, let alone know the specifics of how it works. And no, it's not completely different. Medicine is also featured in many medias nowadays.
    Last edited by PharaohAtem; 08/15/10 at 09:15 AM.

  37. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem View Post
    Thanks! Oh, so it's one page on that website, and the URL you gave is the main page, right?
    That's right.

    Again, that's not up to you to decide. Many people in the world might have never heard of alchemy at all, let alone know the specifics of how it works. And no, it's not completely different. Medicine is also featured in many medias nowadays.
    However, I do agree with DarkDust that Medicine is an entirely different kind of thing. Medicine is a vast field with extensive knowledge, which requires specializations, and does cause problems for even experienced doctors. While you may have a point about Alchemy, it is a completely different field and I do not think comparing it with something like Medicine is fair here. Alchemy is but a Philosophy, whose truths was hidden among metaphors and allegory. It is subjective, considering that symbolism may convey different meanings for each person. Medicine, on the other hand, is an objective field. Knowledge is handled in a manner that is most commonly accepted under specific conditions, which is known as scientific method.

    While I see where both of you are getting at, I think comparing Alchemy to a complicated field such as Medicine is a bit extreme. On the other hand, DarkDust's judgment may have been a bit harsh, considering that Alchemy was mostly kept under wraps and thus most people don't know the real intention and meaning of it.



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  38. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    However, I do agree with DarkDust that Medicine is an entirely different kind of thing. Medicine is a vast field with extensive knowledge, which requires specializations, and does cause problems for even experienced doctors. While you may have a point about Alchemy, it is a completely different field and I do not think comparing it with something like Medicine is fair here. Alchemy is but a Philosophy, whose truths was hidden among metaphors and allegory. It is subjective, considering that symbolism may convey different meanings for each person. Medicine, on the other hand, is an objective field. Knowledge is handled in a manner that is most commonly accepted under specific conditions, which is known as scientific method.

    While I see where both of you are getting at, I think comparing Alchemy to a complicated field such as Medicine is a bit extreme. On the other hand, DarkDust's judgment may have been a bit harsh, considering that Alchemy was mostly kept under wraps and thus most people don't know the real intention and meaning of it.
    I'll admit to that; I got a bit snappy with that comment. My point, though, was simply about people having heard about Alchemy, not what it entails. There were probably uses for it which were never published or recorded, and who knows how accurate the recorded ones even are to what was actually practiced. Not understanding alchemy? Ironically, understandable. Not knowing alchemy exists outside of a 21st-century anime? Little bit harder to excuse in my mind.

    Funny thing is though, medicine and alchemy have a lot in common. At one time, modern medicine would have been seen as witchcraft. Both rely on (perhaps slightly rudimentary/outdated in Alchemy's case) biology, chemistry and physics; especially the second one. And both have their fair share of critics, believers and practitioners to this day. (Don't try and say otherwise; it's likely that somebody has tried Alchemy in the last 100 years.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  39. Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,067
    Group
    Super Moderator

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    I'll admit to that; I got a bit snappy with that comment. My point, though, was simply about people having heard about Alchemy, not what it entails. There were probably uses for it which were never published or recorded, and who knows how accurate the recorded ones even are to what was actually practiced. Not understanding alchemy? Ironically, understandable. Not knowing alchemy exists outside of a 21st-century anime? Little bit harder to excuse in my mind.
    Ah, alright then. Now it's much more clear.

    Funny thing is though, medicine and alchemy have a lot in common. At one time, modern medicine would have been seen as witchcraft. Both rely on (perhaps slightly rudimentary/outdated in Alchemy's case) biology, chemistry and physics; especially the second one. And both have their fair share of critics, believers and practitioners to this day. (Don't try and say otherwise; it's likely that somebody has tried Alchemy in the last 100 years.)
    Now that you say it, I kind of forgot about that part, having focused on the modern part of Medicine (and only in the context of the argument itself as it was presented) when I was making my post. I suppose I got just as snappy as you before. I apologize.

    In fact, Alchemy somewhat helped the birth of Modern Chemistry, with some of the Alchemists focusing on more practical, close-to-Earth methods, resulting in the prototype of modern Chemistry experiments. Then there's Paracelsus and Homeotherapy. Paracelsus wanted to use Alchemy with medical goals in mind, and thus he gave birth to the prototype of Homeotherapy.

    And yes, they probably did. I recall reading an article on someone remaking an alchemy lab in the modern world. I don't remember if they just recreated it for enjoyment or were planning to do experiments, perhaps to see how they fared in the days of today.

    ---

    Anyway, to keep this on topic. More Egyptian Magic comparisons. Again, bolded relevant parts as usual.


    Spoiler: Saving space
    The "magic" of the Egyptians was of two kinds: (1) that which was employed for legitimate
    purposes and with the idea of benefiting either the living or the dead, and (2) that which was
    made use of in the furtherance of nefarious plots and schemes and was intended to bring
    calamities upon those against whom it was directed.
    In the religious texts and works we see
    how magic is made to be the handmaiden of religion, and how it appears in certain passages
    side by side with the most exalted spiritual conceptions; and there can be no doubt that the chief
    object of magical books and ceremonies was to benefit those who had by some means attained
    sufficient knowledge to make use of them. But the Egyptians were unfortunate enough not to be
    understood by many of the strangers who found their way into their country, and as a result
    wrong and exaggerated ideas of their religion were circulated among the surrounding nations,
    and the magical ceremonies which were performed at their funerals were represented by the
    ignorant either as silly acts of superstition or as tricks of the "black" art. But whereas the magic
    of every other nation of the ancient East was directed entirely against the powers of darkness,
    and was

    p. 4
    invented in order to frustrate their fell designs by invoking a class of benevolent beings to their
    aid, the Egyptians aimed being able to command their gods to work for them, and to compel
    them to appear at their desire.
    These great results were to be obtained by the use of certain
    words which, to be efficacious, must be uttered in a proper tone of voice by a duly qualified
    man; such words might be written upon some substance, papyrus, precious stones, and the like,
    and worn on the person, when their effect could be transmitted to any distance.
    As almost every
    man, woman, and child in Egypt who could afford it wore some such charm or talisman, it is
    not to be wondered at that the Egyptians were at a very early period regarded as a nation of
    magicians and sorcerers. Hebrew, and Greek, and Roman writers referred to them as experts in
    the occult sciences, and as the possessors of powers which could, according to circumstances,
    be employed to do either good or harm to man.


    • Basically what the monster spirits were used for. Though, they were used mostly for war and protection, see using the summoned monsters to deal with the invaders of Egypt. Also, note how the text says that strangers looked down on the Egyptians' practices, perhaps that is why they wanted to obtain the Millennium Tome, to destroy it, maybe?
    • Again, the writing speaks of the importance and power of words, it would explain why Atem's name may have been removed from the Tablet on which it was inscribed.

    Though, if anyone wants to read the book themselves I'm quoting from (this is basically a better idea), it can be found here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ema/index.htm



    If you could rewrite history ...
    ... What would you do differently?


    Avatar and Signature is based on fanart by the amazing Yatuki.

    Code of Conduct | Rules and Guidelines (General, Posting, Signature) | Download Forum Rules | Forum Staff List


  40. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    However, I do agree with DarkDust that Medicine is an entirely different kind of thing. Medicine is a vast field with extensive knowledge, which requires specializations, and does cause problems for even experienced doctors. While you may have a point about Alchemy, it is a completely different field and I do not think comparing it with something like Medicine is fair here. Alchemy is but a Philosophy, whose truths was hidden among metaphors and allegory. It is subjective, considering that symbolism may convey different meanings for each person. Medicine, on the other hand, is an objective field. Knowledge is handled in a manner that is most commonly accepted under specific conditions, which is known as scientific method.
    Whether it's medicine or the single most obscure topic in the world, my point is that something that you don't know anything about is as obscure to you as it might be clear to someone else, and no one has any right to judge or criticize such things.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    I'll admit to that; I got a bit snappy with that comment. My point, though, was simply about people having heard about Alchemy, not what it entails. There were probably uses for it which were never published or recorded, and who knows how accurate the recorded ones even are to what was actually practiced. Not understanding alchemy? Ironically, understandable. Not knowing alchemy exists outside of a 21st-century anime? Little bit harder to excuse in my mind.

    Funny thing is though, medicine and alchemy have a lot in common. At one time, modern medicine would have been seen as witchcraft. Both rely on (perhaps slightly rudimentary/outdated in Alchemy's case) biology, chemistry and physics; especially the second one. And both have their fair share of critics, believers and practitioners to this day. (Don't try and say otherwise; it's likely that somebody has tried Alchemy in the last 100 years.)
    I'm sorry, but my point still stands: your condescending attitude under any circumstance where you happen to know about something that someone else knows nothing about is absolutely inexcusable. You can't give evil even an inch or it'll end up having a stranglehold on you. There are definitely topics about which you have never heard so much as a whisper, unless you would like to pretend to be omniscient. And why would it be likely? It's a possibility just as everything in the world is possible, hypothetically speaking, but that's as much as anyone can say about it.
    Last edited by PharaohAtem; 08/16/10 at 02:17 AM.

  41. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem View Post
    Whether it's medicine or the single most obscure topic in the world, my point is that something that you don't know anything about is as obscure to you as it might be clear to someone else, and no one has any right to judge or criticize such things.
    True as that might be, it is going to happen. You may as well get used to it.

    I'm sorry, but my point still stands: your condescending attitude under any circumstance where you happen to know about something that someone else knows nothing about is absolutely inexcusable. You can't give evil even an inch or it'll end up having a stranglehold on you. There are definitely topics about which you have never heard so much as a whisper, unless you would like to pretend to be omniscient. And why would it be likely? It's a possibility just as everything in the world is possible, hypothetically speaking, but that's as much as anyone can say about it.
    My "condescending attitude", as you call it, is what has allowed me to learn all the things I have. And no, I am not omniscient; and if somebody told me of something that is pretty much common knowledge, that I had no awareness of, then I would feel like an idiot. As I rightly should. Common knowledge is "Common" for a reason; because it is implied that the vast majority of people know it. Whether that is true or not, I do not know; but an assumption with no contradictory evidence must be upheld, or there is no path of thought at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arynis View Post
    Now that you say it, I kind of forgot about that part, having focused on the modern part of Medicine (and only in the context of the argument itself as it was presented) when I was making my post. I suppose I got just as snappy as you before. I apologize.


    Never apologize for calling it like you see it. I just put the connection together as I was saying that myself.

    In fact, Alchemy somewhat helped the birth of Modern Chemistry, with some of the Alchemists focusing on more practical, close-to-Earth methods, resulting in the prototype of modern Chemistry experiments. Then there's Paracelsus and Homeotherapy. Paracelsus wanted to use Alchemy with medical goals in mind, and thus he gave birth to the prototype of Homeotherapy.
    Well there you go. [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ScienceMarchesOnScience evolves no differently than an organism[/quote].

    And yes, they probably did. I recall reading an article on someone remaking an alchemy lab in the modern world. I don't remember if they just recreated it for enjoyment or were planning to do experiments, perhaps to see how they fared in the days of today.
    My friend and I were joking a while ago about how one would think, if they saw a modern alchemy lab, that it was a meth lab. Maybe...

    ---

    Anyway, to keep this on topic. More Egyptian Magic comparisons. Again, bolded relevant parts as usual.
    Link added 'cause it's true.

    Spoiler: Saving space
    The "magic" of the Egyptians was of two kinds: (1) that which was employed for legitimate
    purposes and with the idea of benefiting either the living or the dead, and (2) that which was
    made use of in the furtherance of nefarious plots and schemes and was intended to bring
    calamities upon those against whom it was directed.

    ***
    But the Egyptians were unfortunate enough not to be
    understood by many of the strangers who found their way into their country, and as a result
    wrong and exaggerated ideas of their religion were circulated among the surrounding nations,
    and the magical ceremonies which were performed at their funerals were represented by the
    ignorant either as silly acts of superstition or as tricks of the "black" art. But whereas the magic
    of every other nation of the ancient East was directed entirely against the powers of darkness,
    and was

    p. 4
    invented in order to frustrate their fell designs by invoking a class of benevolent beings to their
    aid, the Egyptians aimed being able to command their gods to work for them, and to compel
    them to appear at their desire.
    These great results were to be obtained by the use of certain
    words which, to be efficacious, must be uttered in a proper tone of voice by a duly qualified
    man; such words might be written upon some substance, papyrus, precious stones, and the like,
    and worn on the person, when their effect could be transmitted to any distance.


    • Basically what the monster spirits were used for. Though, they were used mostly for war and protection, see using the summoned monsters to deal with the invaders of Egypt. Also, note how the text says that strangers looked down on the Egyptians' practices, perhaps that is why they wanted to obtain the Millennium Tome, to destroy it, maybe?
    • Again, the writing speaks of the importance and power of words, it would explain why Atem's name may have been removed from the Tablet on which it was inscribed.
    Okay; I guess Takahasi read the whole book very carefully. Now if only Hoolywood writers could figure that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  42. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    True as that might be, it is going to happen. You may as well get used to it.
    When you get called on it, at least, the smart thing to do is to stop doing it.

    My "condescending attitude", as you call it, is what has allowed me to learn all the things I have. And no, I am not omniscient; and if somebody told me of something that is pretty much common knowledge, that I had no awareness of, then I would feel like an idiot. As I rightly should. Common knowledge is "Common" for a reason; because it is implied that the vast majority of people know it. Whether that is true or not, I do not know; but an assumption with no contradictory evidence must be upheld, or there is no path of thought at all.
    Who would want teach anyone with an attitude of disdain towards anything that others don't know as well as himself? There is no way you can call something like alchemy "common knowledge". The forging of metals, perhaps, but not alchemy specifically.

    Never apologize for calling it like you see it. I just put the connection together as I was saying that myself.
    If that attitude was justified, sure, but it wasn't.

  43. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem View Post
    Secondly, in Yugioh, during the creation of the Millenium Items, was it ever mentioned that they *created* gold? I was always under the impression that they simply melted gold they already had and combined it with the people they burned alive.
    I dunno. I was thinking maybe the Items are actually composed of gold mixed with blood (from the human sacrifices).

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    And I was recommending FMA: Brotherhood, the second anime series, NOT the first. The first anime sucks. The second one is good and actually follows the original story of the manga, but to each their own, I suppose.
    Right, to each their own. Case in point, I actually prefer the first FMA anime. Just because something's newer or more manga-accurate doesn't mean it's "better." The first FMA is the only series with an original anime ending that I think is better than the direction the manga headed.

    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem View Post
    I'd like to recommend to anyone series like Soukyuu no Fafner, Yoroiden Samurai Troopers and a few others because I find them as beautiful as you do FMA, but I'm not basically gonna accuse them of not having a soul just because they don't like those series as much as I do.
    True, you can't force something you like on people. But it's okay to give someone a little push because often people dismiss a series without truly giving it a chance.

    On a side note, I am interested in Samurai Troopers, but I've seen all of Fafner and I still regret it.
    Last edited by russ869; 09/09/10 at 10:52 PM.

  44. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by russ869 View Post
    I dunno. I was thinking maybe the Items are actually composed of gold mixed with blood (from the human sacrifices).
    Blood, flesh, bones, the whole human mess. After all, those people were thrown in boiling cauldrons alive.

    Right, to each their own. Case in point, I actually prefer the first FMA anime. Just because something's newer or more manga-accurate doesn't mean it's "better." The first FMA is the only series with an original anime ending that I think is better than the direction the manga headed.
    There are factors that make it a general consensus that the manga of any series, if it came first, is usually better than the anime version. For instance, a brilliant plot might have some elements presented differently in the anime because of things like perceived excessive violence, blood, nudity, cursing or other such things. But it's not because those things are present in the manga that they make it any less enjoyable to the readers. In fact, those things usually add to the plot in a meaningful way. One of the best examples of that is in the X TV series based on CLAMP's manga. Although it's not as bad as the movie, elements of violence that were removed from the anime took away from the plot.

    True, you can't force something you like on people. But it's okay to give someone a little push because often people dismiss a series without truly giving it a chance.

    On a side note, I am interested in Samurai Troopers, but I've seen all of Fafner and I still regret it.
    Why do you regret it? Are you talking about the ending? If so, I'd like to refer you to this. As it says, this movie, Heaven and Earth, will be coming on Christmas Day this year. Can't imagine a better gift myself. The glowing button on the page, btw, opens up a window with locations where the movie will be shown (in cinemas); the first button beneath it opens up a window about the movie's Image Soundtrack (also comes with a DVD), which can already be ordered here; the button next to that one opens up a window detailing when you can get advance tickets for the movie, and samples of what the movie tickets look like. If you actually understand japanese well, I can give you download links to the files of the CD and DVD set. There are two new songs, interviews, a story digest, a PV, among other content. As for the "Fact and Recollection" button that can be seen at the bottom, it is a play that will center around Hazama Shouko, her mother and Canon. I can only hope it comes out on video someday as well.

    As for Samurai Troopers, you should definitely see it. If you can, rent the DVDs and watch the japanese dialogue version with subs on. All subs may not be perfectly accurate, but it's good enough. There used to be a tor-rent with all the episodes, but it went down with BoxTor-rents' move, sadly. If you're ever interested, I have mp3s of the fourth, and rarest, Cassette Book Collection, the one with the audio drama tracks concerning Shuten's backstory. I also have an equally rare tape with the story of how the troopers got their armors, also an audio drama which contains Kaosu monologues in-between the troopers' bits. Well, I can link you to all my files if you're ever interested. YST has a surprising lot of CDs and cassettes for such a short series.
    Last edited by PharaohAtem; 09/10/10 at 04:43 AM.

  45. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by PharaohAtem View Post
    Blood, flesh, bones, the whole human mess. After all, those people were thrown in boiling cauldrons alive.
    In Japan anyway; in the dub they just extracted their souls. But yeah, full-on human sacrifice.

    There are factors that make it a general consensus that the manga of any series, if it came first, is usually better than the anime version. For instance, a brilliant plot might have some elements presented differently in the anime because of things like perceived excessive violence, blood, nudity, cursing or other such things. But it's not because those things are present in the manga that they make it any less enjoyable to the readers. In fact, those things usually add to the plot in a meaningful way. One of the best examples of that is in the X TV series based on CLAMP's manga. Although it's not as bad as the movie, elements of violence that were removed from the anime took away from the plot.
    What if the manga comes second? What then? People just prefer whatever came first because it sets the standard for what everything subsequent in that franchise. It makes sense, but it's an unreasonable expectation that the writers sacrifice creative lisence for the sake of bei9ng a carbon copy of the original.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  46. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    What if the manga comes second? What then? People just prefer whatever came first because it sets the standard for what everything subsequent in that franchise. It makes sense, but it's an unreasonable expectation that the writers sacrifice creative lisence for the sake of bei9ng a carbon copy of the original.
    ...Writers? What are you talking about? They're not writers or creators of anything.

    In a manga series anime adaption, the anime studio's job is to make an adaption of an already created work. They're just basically filtering the already created work through a new medium for the enjoyment of those who wish to experience it differently. Oh, and also to make money. Its work, but putting that on the same level as the creator who originally conceived of the story from scratch and built the narrative themselves is silly. They're not suppose to have creative license. They're supposed to reproduce the work as beautifully as possible without losing anything in translation.

    The only time they get "creative license" is if they need to pad the work with filler in order for the anime not to overtake the source material. And usually it ends up sucking.

  47. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    ...Writers? What are you talking about? They're not writers or creators of anything.
    There's always a writing staff on any anime, even an adaptation of a manga.

    I
    n a manga series anime adaption, the anime studio's job is to make an adaption of an already created work. They're just basically filtering the already created work through a new medium for the enjoyment of those who wish to experience it differently. Oh, and also to make money. Its work, but putting that on the same level as the creator who originally conceived of the story from scratch and built the narrative themselves is silly. They're not suppose to have creative license. They're supposed to reproduce the work as beautifully as possible without losing anything in translation.
    That's not always possible, remember? The reason the first Fullmetal Alchemist anime got such a different ending is because the anime's production caught up with the manga, and so they had to proceed in their own way. It happens with a number of anime actually, including Hellsing (which I mention 1) because of the drastic difference in adaptaions and 2) because it's one of my GF's favourite anime) and our very own Yugioh Duel Monsters if I recall correctly. Doing so requires creative lisence.

    The only time they get "creative license" is if they need to pad the work with filler in order for the anime not to overtake the source material. And usually it ends up sucking.
    More often than not, though, they do what I just described. Naruto may have turned out better had they done that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  48. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    There's always a writing staff on any anime, even an adaptation of a manga.
    Yeah, but again. Their job is to ensure the translation of the source material to the anime medium is smooth and coherent. They may fill in holes or help make the scenes more presentable on screen, but that's not the same thing as the actual writer/manga staff who made the story up in the first place. Their 'creative license' only should go so far. People watch the anime to see the storytelling of the mangaka, not them.


    That's not always possible, remember? The reason the first Fullmetal Alchemist anime got such a different ending is because the anime's production caught up with the manga, and so they had to proceed in their own way. It happens with a number of anime actually, including Hellsing (which I mention 1) because of the drastic difference in adaptaions and 2) because it's one of my GF's favourite anime) and our very own Yugioh Duel Monsters if I recall correctly. Doing so requires creative lisence.
    Yeah, they made the choice of just going in a radically new direction with the story, than just putting in filler to pad the series. Whether or not it was a good idea is entirely opinion and widely discussed but in the end, when FMA is all said and done, it's Hiromu Arakawa's story. FMA is hers and hers alone. What the anime created with FMA and its characters isn't the real FMA story to me. It's some anime studio's interpretation churned out to make some cash piggybacking on her ideas in return for monetary compensation.

    All those examples you listed, I see as that, quite frankly. Although YGO DM never really radically departed from the original series except in regards to certain filler plot lines, and of course the omission of the beginning volumes of the series. Overall its faithful.





    More often than not, though, they do what I just described. Naruto may have turned out better had they done that.
    Oh I agree. They do, I'm well aware of that. But again, its not always a good idea. Don't even get me started on Naruto.

  49. Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    At The Opera Tonight
    Posts
    774
    Group
    Member
    Infractions
    0/1 (1)

    Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by Makoeyes987 View Post
    Yeah, but again. Their job is to ensure the translation of the source material to the anime medium is smooth and coherent. They may fill in holes or help make the scenes more presentable on screen, but that's not the same thing as the actual writer/manga staff who made the story up in the first place. Their 'creative license' only should go so far. People watch the anime to see the storytelling of the manga, not them.
    Most do. I have met people who want to see the anime so they can see if any sorts of changes were made, because there is a chance those changes will be good. That being said, they're few and far between.

    Yeah, they made the choice of just going in a radically new direction with the story, than just putting in filler to pad the series. Whether or not it was a good idea is entirely opinion and widely discussed but in the end, when FMA is all said and done, it's Hiromu Arakawa's story. FMA is hers and hers alone. What the anime created with FMA and its characters isn't the real FMA story to me. It's some anime studio's interpretation churned out to make some cash piggybacking on her ideas in return for monetary compensation.

    All those examples you listed, I see as that, quite frankly. Although YGO DM never really radically departed from the original series except in regards to certain filler plot lines, and of course the omission of the beginning volumes of the series. Overall its faithful.
    There are some minor changes in Yugioh, most notably leaving Kaiba stuck in jerk mode far longer than in the manga. Otherwise, it's true that they are still the same original story as the manga; but you could argue that the part they write on their own is theirs. Thus, they half-own those stories (or whatever fraction it works out like), if that makes any sense at all.

    Oh I agree. They do, I'm well aware of that. But again, its not always a good idea. Don't even get me started on Naruto.
    Why would I? It's quite clear that Naruto is the Twilight of anime, so I hate them both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryusaki View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nike View Post
    I pre-ordered the movie from Amazon UK. It should come to my house in August. What I don't understand is that why is there such thing as the uncut English dubbed version of the movie only on the UK DVD?
    Because in the UK we don't **** around.
    Spoiler: Thank you Arynis



    Spoiler: Damn It Judai



    Spoiler: Choose Now




    Bored? Check me out on Fanfiction.net.


  50. Default Re: Yuugi and Osiris

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon View Post
    There are some minor changes in Yugioh, most notably leaving Kaiba stuck in jerk mode far longer than in the manga. Otherwise, it's true that they are still the same original story as the manga; but you could argue that the part they write on their own is theirs. Thus, they half-own those stories (or whatever fraction it works out like), if that makes any sense at all.
    What do you mean? Kaiba's not anymore "jerkish" than he is in the original manga, barring fillers, since they add in more Kaiba time than there was in the original. I'm not sure why there's this weird conception that Kaiba's this mean bastard who just goes around smack talking like a sailor. He's surly at times but honorable. Except to Jou, cause he can't help but be amused at teasing him. Once he gets the evil out of him, he's a pretty heroic guy.



    Why would I? It's quite clear that Naruto is the Twilight of anime, so I hate them both.
    I wouldn't go that far, bro. The manga's pretty damn good. The anime adaption however suffers from a severe case of crap due to filler injection, questionable animation quality, and ridiculous pacing. Its much better read than watched.

Moderation Tools (0)
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 0 guests)

  1. Arynis

Similar Threads

  1. The Osiris Red Card Shack!
    By Kyte in forum The Desert Trading Post
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 06/30/08, 02:37 PM
  2. Cramped Osiris?
    By Chaos_Knight in forum The GX Anime
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08/05/06, 08:07 AM
  3. Yuugi Luvers Welcome! (all yuugi hater, danger danger!!!)
    By Simply Yugi in forum General Yugioh Discussion
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 07/09/05, 02:19 AM
  4. What do you think of Rei from Osiris Red?
    By Kouya Marino in forum The GX Anime
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03/19/05, 03:32 AM
  5. Osiris card is at Target for...$30...
    By Deadly Messiah in forum The Card Lounge
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01/21/05, 10:56 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts