Thread: Manga Doma Project!

If the DM Spirit World nonsense could be erased or toned down considerably, that'd fix a significant portion of its problems.

Change how the characters got the Legendary Dragon cards. Them being given the cards by Pegasus, rather them appearing out of nowhere would certainly help.

Finally, the horribly corny conclusion to the Dartz vs. Yugi and Kaiba duel would need to be rewritten. My God, that was just nonsense.

Those were its major points that could use retooling in my eyes. If those could be justified, Doma would actually be pretty descent in the end.

-Rewrite Yugi & Kaiba VS Dartz, this is my main problem with Doma, the end was horrible
-Change the storyline so that it fits with Duel Monsters storyline

I really don't hate Doma that much, my main problem with it is a lot of it seems to be rushed and not thought through.

Now this is my kind of topic!

A manga Doma's main job would be to undermine the Memory Arc less. It's tempting to say remove Atlantis, but let's face it: the Doma arc is about Atlantis. If you're going to have the arc, you pretty much have to keep Atlantis. And the idea of Orichalcos stones raining down on the Utopia and corrupting the people isn't the problem; it's actually a cool idea. The problem is, as everyone's said, the Duel Monsters World. It makes Duel Monsters more than what it is, and damages the simple but cool concept of Ka spirits. Besides, in the manga it would the Magic and Wizards World anyway XD.

Quite frankly, the arc could lose the Duel Monsters World and it would be all the better off. Make the Legendary Dragons special cards left behind by Pegasus, as Mako suggested. The Legendary Knights, quite frankly, don't really need to exist. Maybe make their fusion-based effects a little more based in reality -- cards appearing out of thin air and Rainbow Neos-style impossible fusions are the anime's domain, not the manga. Dartz's cards, too, would need some kind of explanation. It would be nice confirmed to hear the assumption many people make: that Doma's influence in Industrial Illusions created them.

Also, Mai's got to have a different role. The post-penalty game nightmares is a solid plot that appeared briefly in the manga with Kaiba, but her obsession with stealing Yugi and Jonouchi's souls is, quite frankly, impossible to accept. The anime tries its hardest but there's just no way Mai would do that after all the guys have done for her. No way. The Three Musketeers of Doma are the highlight of the arc and don't really need any changes at all, with the exception of slightly rewriting Rafael's past so that it makes sense that Magic and Wizards cards would exist before his tragic ship accident.

That the ending needs improving is also pretty agreed upon. YGO R pointed out that you can't go beyond infinity -- why didn't the anime just have the Legendary Knights suicide attack against the Wicked God Ge? Yugi would have still won, since Black Magician Girl was on the field. Anyway, that needs better-ing, and the triple attack of the God Cards against the Orichalcos God is a tad predictable. Finally, we need to hear more from Dartz after he loses. The anime clearly had no idea what to do with him. They were, quite frankly, too soft. Dartz was once a good man, yes, and his reunion with his family was touching, but look at what he's done. Thousands of lives ruined, he fused with the Orichalcos God, he tried to obliterate Atem with the darkness of every heart in the world.

Atem using the Egyptian God ka against the Orichalchos god, while predictable, was probably one of the most badass moments in the anime, in terms of animation and action.

That's something I have to say I truly did enjoy from Doma and would have to argue to keep. When Atem woke up the Sangenshin, and busted out of Dartz's disgusting tentacle monster-goo creature. I cheered. Hard.

The music, the animation quality. It was just perfect.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Atem using the Egyptian God ka against the Orichalchos god, while predictable, was probably one of the most badass moments in the anime, in terms of animation and action.

That's something I have to say I truly did enjoy from Doma and would have to argue to keep. When Atem woke up the Sangenshin, and busted out of Dartz's disgusting tentacle monster-goo creature. I cheered. Hard.

The music, the animation quality. It was just perfect.

It was cool, yes. I guess the whole incredible epic scope of having all three God Cards out at once was diluted thanks to the anime's constant use of them -- against the Leviathan, against Zork, against Yugi in the Ceremonial Duel, against Anubis, then later in the form of GX's three Mythic Demons. In the manga, the Gods have never attacked as a team.

One problem with anime Doma is that the plot of Atem's pride forcing him to make a inhumane move in a duel is something that was already a major plot point in the manga. Yugi's duel at Duelist Kingdom with Kaiba separates the vigilante penalty-gaming Atem from the kinder and more heroic Atem. Vigilante Atem barely existed in the anime. It would be hard to justify Atem going through the same development again.

Also, Rebecca. She, uh, doesn't exist in the manga. Although her grandfather does, something could be made of that. Otogi also has no reason to be in America in the manga, since he's not with Industrial Illusions. And for the love of God the manga would have to give Honda and Anzu something to do.

Originally Posted by Ryusaki

It was cool, yes. I guess the whole incredible epic scope of having all three God Cards out at once was diluted thanks to the anime's constant use of them -- against the Leviathan, against Zork, against Yugi in the Ceremonial Duel, against Anubis, then later in the form of GX's three Mythic Demons. In the manga, the Gods have never attacked as a team.

I..never thought of it that way, I guess I can see what you mean. You're right, the manga never had that. But I always thought it'd be cool to see them all as a team. I wouldn't really worry about Anubis or GX though. Since they're kinda extent to the DM series proper. GX especially.

Despite it being filler, honestly it was probably one of the best moments done in the anime, that ever showed Atem using the spirits of the Egyptian Gods as a team. In terms of animation quality, music, and just overall direction. Millennium World just suffers from really groddy animation at times. It angers me a lot.

One problem with anime Doma is that the plot of Atem's pride forcing him to make a inhumane move in a duel is something that was already a major plot point in the manga. Yugi's duel at Duelist Kingdom with Kaiba separates the vigilante penalty-gaming Atem from the kinder and more heroic Atem. Vigilante Atem barely existed in the anime. It would be hard to justify Atem going through the same development again.

Agreed. But it was pretty ballsy at least to do. I dunno, one hand it angered me seeing him lose stupidly by playing so OOC and being corrupted. But I have to give props for the team for doing something like that. Could you imagine them doing something like that with Yusei these days?

Also, Rebecca. She, uh, doesn't exist in the manga. Although her grandfather does, something could be made of that. Otogi also has no reason to be in America in the manga, since he's not with Industrial Illusions. And for the love of God the manga would have to give Honda and Anzu something to do.

It was nice seeing Otogi again though. I always liked him. I wouldn't mind him being included. Rebecca though..yeah. She's certainly umm...something I could do without.

I don't really understand what's the big problem with the Duel Monsters World. Is the difference between "Duel Monsters are manifestations of human souls" and "Duel Monsters are a creation of human thought" that big? (Well, it probably doesn't fit with what Ka is in the actual Eygptian myths, but it's not like YGO is completely in line with the Eygptian myths anyway)

Personally, I think that Atem behavior in his duel with Rafael was pretty believable, but since there are plenty of other people who think otherwise I guess that changing that or any change that would make it more believable would be good.

I would also change the ending a bit, Dartz and the Orichalcos God being immediately forgiven is kinda ridiculous, even if their evil side was sealed away.

Originally Posted by Ryusaki

Also, Mai's got to have a different role. The post-penalty game nightmares is a solid plot that appeared briefly in the manga with Kaiba, but her obsession with stealing Yugi and Jonouchi's souls is, quite frankly, impossible to accept. The anime tries its hardest but there's just no way Mai would do that after all the guys have done for her. No way.

I don't think that Mai was after their souls, didn't she just wanted to beat them and and the whole losing the soul thing just an unfortunate side-effect to her?

The YGO Egyptian mythology was completely rounded and self contained. It was in line and well defined. Yes, the Duel Monster Spirit World is a big deal, considering it renders the ka origin of DM moot. They don't come from a magical mystery world of "thought energy" and warp to our world through cards. That's not the story.

And umm, Mai stating "I'll be taking your soul Jounouchi, and yours too Yugi!"

...Is definitely her wanting their souls. Watch the series, and its pretty clear.

Wouldn't it just be different ways to say the same thing?

Which Episode was that? Not saying that you're wrong, I just only remember her saying she wanted to defeat them.

Originally Posted by cag

Wouldn't it just be different ways to say the same thing?

Which Episode was that? Not saying that you're wrong, I just only remember her saying she wanted to defeat them.

Ummm... No its not, and I don't know how any clear it needs to be. Monsters coming from different dimensions through cards, and existing in their own separate universe, is worlds apart than ka as the originating spirits who were originally sealed in spirits.

And it's episode 151 and 152.

And then there's 170, 171, and 172.

But the whole different dimension, and presumingly those spirits, was a creation of human thought and couldn't exist without it. Couldn't the Duel Monster World simply be a parallel world of Kas?

Well, I was hoping for something more specific, but ok, I'll rewatch those episodes.

Originally Posted by cag

But the whole different dimension, and presumingly those spirits, was a creation of human thought and couldn't exist without it. Couldn't the Duel Monster World simply be a parallel world of Kas?

Them being from a different dimension spawned by some nebulous, undefined concept called "thought energy" or whatever, isn't the same as Duel Monsters originating from an individual's unique spirit based on their personality, and their heart, which goes with the concept of the Egyptian afterlife and the heart being measured against the feather of Ma'at. That is not the same damn thing.

But I don't recall anything in Doma that contradicts that, only that there's a parallel world that Duel Monsters live in, the individual Duel Monsters could still be manifestations of souls or thoughts of individuals. Or am I remembering things wrong?

Monsters made out of your mind/personality != Monsters from a different Quantum Universe.

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

Monsters made out of your mind/personality != Monsters from a different Quantum Universe.

But again, the different Universe itself was created from human thoughts.

BTW, the fact that the BMG didn't know anything about the Legendary Dragons beyond the myth about them implies that she only came to be long after the Atlantis War(Which makes sense, since her origin is in Eygpt, 7000 years later) which does go along with the notion that individual Duel Monsters are created from individual humans.

Jesus Christ, dude, how many more times does it have to be repeated?

It doesn't make sense within the Egyptian mythos origin of Monsters and Wizards.

Egyptian lore and mythology doesn't mention anything about a separate quantum universe of random fcvking monsters from a children's card game existing in a world parallel to our own that exists thanks to THOUGHTO ENERGY, which sounds hair brained in and of itself, unless you're an otherkin or you're Dr. Zwienstein from GX.

Jerry Beans Man, Water Omotics, and Key Mace don't live in a Castle in the Sky and hop into our world via our cards in the original manga. That's not how Takahashi wrote the story. Will you please stop arguing trying to bend the manga canon we're discussing in this thread, to meet the ravings of Shin Yoshida. We're trying to do the opposite. We're trying to make Doma, make sense within the actual original canon of the manga. You're defeating the entire purpose of this thread's discussion.

This is the exact problem we're trying to avoid in terms of discussing Doma's faults within the story.

But that's not what I'm saying. Of course it didn't exist the original manga, I'm only saying that it could fit in.

But okey, I'll take this discussion to a different thread if it bothers you so much.

Originally Posted by cag

But that's not what I'm saying, of course it didn't exist the original manga, I'm only saying that it could fit in.

But okey, I'll take this discussion to a different thread if it bothers you so much.

No, brah. It can't. Because the origin of DM in the original story, specifically tied to the Ancient Egyptian mythos of ka and ba. Ka and ba exist here. It was not trans-dimensional fantasy plot elements. That was not how YGO was. If that's what you were looking for in YGO, you would not find it. That's Digimon territory. I'd like YGO to stay YGO. Thank you.

Another problem that would need to be addressed is if a Doma manga project were based more on the original series, we're going to need to heavily rewrite the duels, due to, you know, how Manga Duels operate with only 5 cards on the field at a time, Fusions counting as their pieces, and the fact Doma tended to abuse S/T and Monster Zone limits brutally.

If I tried to quote everything I agree with in this thread, my computer would probably explode, so I'll just write some stuff off the top of my head with apologies for reiterating some of what has already been mentioned.

First of all, Doma could really do without Pegasus, Rebbecca, Otogi and Mai. It's not that I don't like all of these guys, but there was really no need to bring back so many of the secondary characters from the previous arcs. I also think that Bakura could have had an interesting good bad guy role in this, if the writers had the balls to include him.

Beating a dead horse here, but the Duel Monsters world really does not need to exist. The threat of ending the world as we know it should be quite enough. The dragons could very well be nothing more complicated than ka sealed into stone tablets that Pegasus later used to make the cards. And for God's sake, either put the cards in Yugi, Kaiba and Jonouchi's hands through some plausible means, or just make them the weapons of the Doma Musketeers. Or both in reverse order. While we're at it, Valon's ridiculous armor deck needs to die in a fire and Jonouchi getting his own dragon should have more to do with his current rank as a duelist, than with the destined duelist bullsh!t.

In light of Atem's character development up until that point, his playing the seal would have been easier to swallow if there was actually anything of any importance at stake in that duel. Like, I dunno, lives. The rage over losing Yugi would still allow him to go trough his berserker stunt, but without much of the oh-so-unbecoming emotional pornography that preceded (and followed) it. Also, if I was calling the shots, it would have been Jonouchi that beat some sense into him. Doma failed hard core at picking up on their epic Battle City bromance.

Dartz was charismatic enough for a villain and I actually liked him quite a lot, but the dude really needed to die die, and not happily waltz into the afterlife, as if his worst crime in life was tax evasion. He also needed to not have 20000 life points, 15000 ATK monsters and an invincible lizard. It's unbecoming for a king to not be able to take defeat gracefully for three freaking episodes.

Last, but not least, why would Doma even use card games to seal souls? It could have been explained away by something as simple as "Souls can only be sealed in a battle ritual, and in this day and age, it's much simpler to challenge unsuspecting victims to a game of cards, than to a sword fight."

Originally Posted by Dr_Watson

I also think that Bakura could have had an interesting good bad guy role in this, if the writers had the balls to include him.

Since it's the manga, Bakura could at least have been part of the main gang.

While we're at it, Valon's ridiculous armor deck needs to die in a fire

Ridiculous it may be, but it's hard to watch episode 171 and say "I want to see less of this". Valon and Jonouchi should totally have a regular fist fight as well. Let them discuss their street punk pasts.

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

Another problem that would need to be addressed is if a Doma manga project were based more on the original series, we're going to need to heavily rewrite the duels, due to, you know, how Manga Duels operate with only 5 cards on the field at a time, Fusions counting as their pieces, and the fact Doma tended to abuse S/T and Monster Zone limits brutally.

The Seal of Orichalcos will not be pleased.

Also, we need closure on Gurimo.

1. If we're making this a manga arc or spinoff... first we should probably consolidate Atlantis somehow into the Egyptian Mythos. If we go with the Plato account of Atlantis, one would have to go with Egypt being a colony of Atlantis. If we go with that, we should toss out the Duel Monster Universe rigmarole and replace it with the origins of the Ka/Ba stuff and how the Atlantis civilization stumbled onto it.

2. I think we might need to revise the Orichalcos God/"The Great Leviathan" and what exactly it is. The easiest thing to go with is some sort of Super Abnormal Ka. While it probably wouldn't work this way, I'd suggest perhaps having it be the culmination of all the evil thoughts, sin, and debauchery swirling through the populace of Atlantis. If we need an idiot excuse here for how this would happen, use the metal Orichalcum, which is said to be the metal of Atlantis equal second to gold. And make it resonate to evil.

Or we could always use Edgar Cayce's ******** laser crystals for the same shit. XD

3. Instead of Pegasus, since we're using Manga Canon, and we can't have Rebecca (or can we?), Otogi, or Mai for the ride... Bring back Yakou Tenma, Gekkou Tenma, Richie Merced, and Depre Scott. Those guys were cool and why not use canon source materials if we need random excuses for people to hop in. Heck, Yakou would replace Pegasus pretty damn well and work for Mr. Exposition/Excuse of where the dragons came from.

4. Base the Dragon's cards on recently found tablets of ancient myths or something. Idk. I'm getting incoherent.

5. We have a second problem, I think. Raphael seems to break the timeline badly, if memory serves of when he gets the cards. I can't quote anything off the top of my head, but Raphael between when he did get the Guardians and when he returned seemed to be something.

6. Do keep the Armor Deck, or at least the Helmet's analysis shit, that was the best even if it was ridiculous. If we need to tone down Valon/Varon's deck, just give him the helmet and the fists.

7. Perhaps we should have Gurimo be extended as a major antagonist replacing Mai's part. Or perhaps Mai be blackmailed into working for the Orichalcos initially under some sort of rationale, with her getting drunk on the Orichalcos's magic.

But seriously, I loved Gurimo's design and he was a nice start off for the arc. He screamed ancient conspiracy, but not in the entirely absurd-ist Loony Tunes way Placido, Lucciano, and Jose come off.

8. What do we do about Haga and Ryusaki here. They were hilarious padding villains, but I'm not sure if their ambitions here would work. Well, Haga would since he's a total putz, but even the shenanigans seemed a bit over the line for him. Ryuzaki seemed to be dragged into this tomfoolery because he was brought up a lot with Haga. But while he was a bit of a jerk, he wasn't. You know. As much of one as Haga was. Do we have anyone who would work? Besides, you know, moar Bandit Keith, but that would feel tacky.

9. And I doubt Dark Bakura would work with Doma because he's just too awesome to be associated with this. But perhaps use some of the arc with him trying to take advantage of Dartz's scheme to his advantage and you know, perhaps give the Memory Arc some better foreshadowing. As from what I've read of the arc many times, it was a migraine strength headache, especially in terms of Dark Bakura and who he actually was (Mostly how much was Zorc and how much was Thief King or something?). (But I read this years ago.) So perhaps a bit of clarification/foreshadowing might help?

10. We totally need duel rewrites. The Orichalcos needs to be entirely redesigned to make it work better with the aforementioned field/space issues in the manga and what not.

11. I'd also like to discuss what we'd do with a Kaiba Corp Grand Prix. :Ob (Also, Noa would be fun, but that's impossible and for somewhere else. XD

12. If we need an excuse why Orichalcos > Millennium Puzzle, just say it's an older more primal form of magic that taps into something older than the Millennium Puzzles. Idk.

Wow, those are all really good suggestions LeArk, I like it lots. XD

Originally Posted by Ryusaki

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Ridiculous it may be, but it's hard to watch episode 171 and say "I want to see less of this". Valon and Jonouchi should totally have a regular fist fight as well. Let them discuss their street punk pasts.

Oh hell yes. Regular fist fight > armored deck, any day of the week.

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

1.Heck, Yakou would replace Pegasus pretty damn well and work for Mr. Exposition/Excuse of where the dragons came from.

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking.

5. We have a second problem, I think. Raphael seems to break the timeline badly, if memory serves of when he gets the cards. I can't quote anything off the top of my head, but Raphael between when he did get the Guardians and when he returned seemed to be something.

How about this? While he was stranded on a deserted island, the only thing that kept Rafael sane were the guardian spirits he had encountered there. Of course, no one but Dartz believed that these were actual spirits, and not imaginary friends the boy invented in order to cope with the loneliness. He used his influence on I2 to create a one of a kind card set based on Rafael's art of the guardians in order to win him over for good. Rafael was so ecstatic to receive these cards that Magic and Wizards quickly became a way of life for him.

7. Perhaps we should have Gurimo be extended as a major antagonist replacing Mai's part. Or perhaps Mai be blackmailed into working for the Orichalcos initially under some sort of rationale, with her getting drunk on the Orichalcos's magic.

Since Gurimo is the first victim of the seal, I figure him dying in a hospital some two or three odd days after losing the duel would be pretty rad. You know, the body can't survive without the soul, or something. It would add an even greater sense of urgency to rescuing all the people who got sealed afterwards, which means the end-of-the-world locust infestation crap and such could safely be tossed out the window. The world doesn't really need to know how much danger it's in.

12. If we need an excuse why Orichalcos > Millennium Puzzle, just say it's an older more primal form of magic that taps into something older than the Millennium Puzzles. Idk.

I'm not convinced the Puzzle's power even needs to be inferior to the Orichlcos for the story to work. They could just be two different incompatible forms of ancient magic. And besides, Yugi was already not big on using his black magic powers by the time Doma rolled in. To use them against Dartz and his men would only mean proving Dartz's point.

And I doubt Dark Bakura would work with Doma because he's just too awesome to be associated with this.

Fo sho. What I was thinking is, any enemy of Yugi's is an enemy of Bakura's if he gets in the way of Bakura's plans for the Dark RPG. Which Dartz most certainly did.

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

8. What do we do about Haga and Ryusaki here. They were hilarious padding villains, but I'm not sure if their ambitions here would work. Well, Haga would since he's a total putz, but even the shenanigans seemed a bit over the line for him. Ryuzaki seemed to be dragged into this tomfoolery because he was brought up a lot with Haga. But while he was a bit of a jerk, he wasn't. You know. As much of one as Haga was. Do we have anyone who would work? Besides, you know, moar Bandit Keith, but that would feel tacky.

I'm glad you brought this up. As great as extra screentime for Ryuzaki is, I never liked how the anime turned him into Haga's comically-mismatched partner and God Card thief. Just because Haga dueled Ryuzaki that one time doesn't mean they always hang out. Ryuzaki wasn't heroic but he wasn't anywhere near Haga's level of villainy.

It's interesting having them in the arc, and their post-Duelist Kingdom/Battle City defeat backstory is realistic. But Doma didn't give Ryuzaki much justice. You know I would have loved to get some backstory on these guys.

11. I'd also like to discuss what we'd do with a Kaiba Corp Grand Prix. :Ob (Also, Noa would be fun, but that's impossible and for somewhere else. XD

I'm up for it.

Originally Posted by Dr_Watson

How about this? While he was stranded on a deserted island, the only thing that kept Rafael sane were the guardian spirits he had encountered there. Of course, no one but Dartz believed that these were actual spirits, and not imaginary friends the boy invented in order to cope with the loneliness. He used his influence on I2 to create a one of a kind card set based on Rafael's art of the guardians in order to win him over for good. Rafael was so ecstatic to receive these cards that Magic and Wizards quickly became a way of life for him.

I like it!

Since Gurimo is the first victim of the seal, I figure him dying in a hospital some two or three odd days after losing the duel would be pretty rad. You know, the body can't survive without the soul, or something. It would add an even greater sense of urgency to rescuing all the people who got sealed afterwards, which means the end-of-the-world locust infestation crap and such could safely be tossed out the window. The world doesn't really need to know how much danger it's in.

Considering nobody takes Gurimo's body to a hospital after the duel I have a hard time believing he could have possibly survived the time it takes Yugi to defeat Doma. It would have been nice to have this confirmed, although it would have been an almost sadistically grim touch. But how many children did you kill, Doma arc?

Originally Posted by Ryusaki

It would have been nice to have this confirmed, although it would have been an almost sadistically grim touch.

Yes, yes, that's exactly why I like it . The manga was never afraid of being grim when necessary. But for even more sadism, Yugi could actually be the only one whose body didn't instantly die after the soul extraction, owing to the fact that he was the only one who had another soul to take over while he was away. Of course, this is way to grim even for my tastes and I am in no way implying that it's a good direction to take the story into XD.

As for Ryuzaki, I agree that his villainy comes across as an unfortunate side effect of hanging out with Haga for no adequately explored reason. I can see Haga being a mean troll until the bitter end, but it would be nice to see Ryuzaki do something of a heel-face turn (if the two of them even need to be in the arc, that is).

I don't mind Mai being in the arc, so long as she was written in a little better. Mai'** on a different level than the other side characters, so she does deserve to be in the arc. Besides, that's what made Jyonochi's duel against Varon so intense.

Ryuzaki being too "good" to join DOMA or steal god cards does kind of get in the way, but I like that he finally got a rematch against Jyonochi.

One other thing is that YGO R, which can be called Manga DOMAto an extent, made it pretty clear that they have nop intentions of showing who owns Red-Eyes Blac Dragon now, so the duels would have to re-written for that too. That's fine, though. If a DOMA remake were to come out, I'd like to see the duels changed up a bit anyway, since that's the action of the series.

KCGP would probably stay about the same. I don't see why it wouldn't. Manga!Rebecca can be introduced in Manga!DOMA and the problem is solved. lol

Redraw Dartz' bangs. They look way too much like Yugi's and Mai's.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

If the DM Spirit World nonsense could be erased or toned down considerably, that'd fix a significant portion of its problems.

There might be a way to blend it in better, if we stated that the Egyptioan Empire discovered the Ka thing at roughly the same time. It's stated that Egypt discovered the Ka system, but never when they discovered it; and since Egypt is one of the oldest Empires in human history, going back 10,000 years, give-or-take, it makes sense. I know it bends Canon a little, but it's the best compromise I can find. Then those spirits in that world would become disembodied Ka and make sense. Kinda.

...My god, that sounds like a bad fanfiction plot.

Change how the characters got the Legendary Dragon cards. Them being given the cards by Pegasus, rather them appearing out of nowhere would certainly help.

Pegasus was soul-sucka'd at the time; but maybe... Ironheart in disguise? *shot*

Finally, the horribly corny conclusion to the Dartz vs. Yugi and Kaiba duel would need to be rewritten. My God, that was just nonsense.

Mirugai.... Orekarucosu no RPG!

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Atem using the Egyptian God ka against the Orichalchos god, while predictable, was probably one of the most badass moments in the anime, in terms of animation and action.

That's something I have to say I truly did enjoy from Doma and would have to argue to keep. When Atem woke up the Sangenshin, and busted out of Dartz's disgusting tentacle monster-goo creature. I cheered. Hard.

The music, the animation quality. It was just perfect.

Agreed. This must occur again.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

And umm, Mai stating "I'll be taking your soul Jounouchi, and yours too Yugi!"

...Is definitely her wanting their souls. Watch the series, and its pretty clear.

Unless of course, she means she wants their "[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IfYouKnowWhatIMean]souls[/url]".

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Jesus Christ, dude, how many more times does it have to be repeated?

It doesn't make sense within the Egyptian mythos origin of Monsters and Wizards.

Egyptian lore and mythology doesn't mention anything about a separate quantum universe of random fcvking monsters from a children's card game existing in a world parallel to our own that exists thanks to THOUGHTO ENERGY, which sounds hair brained in and of itself, unless you're an otherkin or you're Dr. Zwienstein from GX.

Agreed. That asspull plotline -EFF-ed everything up.

I have mixed feelings on the Dragons. On one hand, the way they got them was really stupid, which kind of comes hand-in-hand with Spirit Worlds, but I really liked the fact that they were textless. If they were legitimate Magic and Wizards cards, it wouldn't make sense for them to be textless. Yakou making some cards out of the Atlanten tablets found by Hopkins would be cool, though.

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

12. If we need an excuse why Orichalcos > Millennium Puzzle, just say it's an older more primal form of magic that taps into something older than the Millennium Puzzles. Idk.

So steal 4Kids' excuse?

I'd also like some sections of the Three Musketeers of Doma chilling. You know, just hanging around. And the presence of Yugi and his friends in America was totally underused. There were no language barriers and pretty much no interaction with anyone beside the other characters. Everybody would have been screwed if they hadn't managed to meet up with Rebecca. Let's see that.

Also, guys, Otogi should absolutely not have a card in his deck designed to help Rebecca's deck. And that's even if Otogi actually has a deck in the first place, and if Rebecca exists.

Originally Posted by Ryusaki

I'd also like some sections of the Three Musketeers of Doma chilling. You know, just hanging around. And the presence of Yugi and his friends in America was totally underused. There were no language barriers and pretty much no interaction with anyone beside the other characters. Everybody would have been screwed if they hadn't managed to meet up with Rebecca. Let's see that.

Yeah, I was sad we didn't get to see them actually having fun or interacting with the fact they were America. Anytime such an event would a occur, Doma would either attack, or make people disappear.

Also, guys, Otogi should absolutely not have a card in his deck designed to help Rebecca's deck. And that's even if Otogi actually has a deck in the first place, and if Rebecca exists.

Actually, it wasn't really designed for Rebecca's deck at all.

Activate only when a Dragon-Type monster is Special Summoned from the Graveyard. Tribute that monster and Special Summon 1 "Diamond Head Dragon" from your Deck in Attack Position under the control of the controller of the Dragon-Type monster that was Special Summoned. "Diamond Head Dragon" cannot attack this turn.

Due to the wishy-washy nature of tag-duel rules, apparently you can special summon your monster to your partner's side of the field. Diamond Head Dragon was Otogi's monster.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Due to the wishy-washy nature of tag-duel rules, apparently you can special summon your monster to your partner's side of the field. Diamond Head Dragon was Otogi's monster.

Is that the actual translation though, or just the YGO Wikia attempt? Either way, Rebecca is the crystal dragon user, so it wouldn't make sense for Otogi to have Diamond Head Dragon in his deck.

Originally Posted by Ryusaki

Is that the actual translation though, or just the YGO Wikia attempt? Either way, Rebecca is the crystal dragon user, so it wouldn't make sense for Otogi to have Diamond Head Dragon in his deck.

I'm assuming that's the card translation, since the text is readily available. I mean, Otogi used and he activated it, so if that text is right, I'd say its his.

Furthermore, during the Kaiba Corp Grand Prix, Rebecca calls Diamond Head Dragon her "new" dragon card, which she tries to use against Leon. Maybe Otogi gave it to her?

I just remembered another thing I felt was unnecessarily over the top: Dartz orchestrating all the tragedies in Rafael, Valon and Amelda's lives. Why bother when desperate nihilists are something you can find on every corner of the globe?

Originally Posted by Dr_Watson

I just remembered another thing I felt was unnecessarily over the top: Dartz orchestrating all the tragedies in Rafael, Valon and Amelda's lives. Why bother when desperate nihilists are something you can find on every corner of the globe?

That ties into the fact Dartz is literally the end all and be all of almost every evil occurrence for 10,000 years in DM. It's quite insane if you think about it. From destroying Atlantis, to witnessing the fall of Egypt, to collecting thousands of souls for over 10,000 years, basically ruling the world of politics and business, and then trolling his own men.

Dartz is behind everything.

I don't think I have to go into how utterly insane and over the top that is. But it's symptomatic of what the Doma arc does. Doma literally tries to turn EVERYTHING in YGO up to 11, and while it makes for an interesting arc that grips you and keeps you entertained, when you try to reconcile that with the rest of the series and what all has gone down, you can't help but scratch your head and thing...

"...LOL whut?"

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

That ties into the fact Dartz is literally the end all and be all of almost every evil occurrence for 10,000 years in DM. It's quite insane if you think about it. From destroying Atlantis, to witnessing the fall of Egypt, to collecting thousands of souls for over 10,000 years, basically ruling the world of politics and business, and then trolling his own men.

Dartz is behind everything.

I don't think I have to go into how utterly insane and over the top that is. But it's symptomatic of what the Doma arc does. Doma literally tries to turn EVERYTHING in YGO up to 11, and while it makes for an interesting arc that grips you and keeps you entertained, when you try to reconcile that with the rest of the series and what all has gone down, you can't help but scratch your head and thing...

"...LOL whut?"

True, true. The thing is, the politics and business story I could swallow. I mean, what kind of an evil immortal sorcerer-king would Dartz be if he had spent 10 millennia twirling his thumbs and not planning world domination? XD But personally interfering in the lives of three random kids (for what looks awfully like shits and giggles, despite how eloquently Dartz puts it) seems ridiculous even by Doma standards.

Originally Posted by Dr_Watson

True, true. The thing is, the politics and business story I could swallow. I mean, what kind of an evil immortal sorcerer-king would Dartz be if he had spent 10 millennia twirling his thumbs and not planning world domination? XD But personally interfering in the lives of three random kids (for what looks awfully like shits and giggles, despite how eloquently Dartz puts it) seems ridiculous even by Doma standards.

Well, he doesn't need random desperate nihilists, he needs people good enough to match the chosen duelists. He probably saw their potential and wanted them to be on his side or something like that. But yeah, it should be more clear.

Still, it's not like Gozaburo wasn't enough of a monster that he wouldn't sell weapons to both sides anyway, and him conjuring up a storm is a little too much power for him to have. I can accept him being the one to give Varon his Armor deck, though.

For me to enjoy a manga of Doma it would have to occur BEFORE Battle City. I think any arc that comes between Battle City and the finale of the series (including R) ruins the momentum of the story.

In other words, the God cards shouldn't play into Doma. Particularly when it's established that only chosen ones can use the cards and therefore they would have been useless to Dartz's followers.

Still these were kind of cool characters, so having an arc centering around a some secret cult and "Super Dragon Cards" could probably at least turn out better than R if done right. Basically Dartz needs a better motivation. The YGO 4kids! dub constantly had villians ranting about taking over/destorying the world. In reality, this was never the true motivation of any YGO villain ever (EXCEPT DARTZ!). So yeah, there needs to be some more complex reason for this arc to happen. And YGO has already had it's share of revenge story arcs so I'd rather it be something more original.

Originally Posted by Dr_Watson

Jonouchi getting his own dragon should have more to do with his current rank as a duelist, than with the destined duelist bullsh!t.

Yes, I agree. That really only adds to the dub misconception that Jounouchi is some kind of loser or comic relief just because he isn't Yuugi or Kaiba.

Last, but not least, why would Doma even use card games to seal souls?

Damn, couldn't have said it better. Sure YGO is a game series, but there is no reason why it has to be the same card game in every single arc. Just think how awesome YGO filler could be if they came up with original games. Malik in Battle City used card games becuase his goal was to acquire the God cards. Dartz already stole the God cards (a much better strategy) so why would he need to know how to duel?!

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

3. Instead of Pegasus, since we're using Manga Canon, and we can't have Rebecca (or can we?), Otogi, or Mai for the ride... Bring back Yakou Tenma, Gekkou Tenma, Richie Merced, and Depre Scott. Those guys were cool and why not use canon source materials if we need random excuses for people to hop in. Heck, Yakou would replace Pegasus pretty damn well and work for Mr. Exposition/Excuse of where the dragons came from.

Ha ha haa...! I laugh every time I see someone describe R characters like Yakou Tenma as "manga canon."

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

...My god, that sounds like a bad fanfiction plot.

Exactly what I was thinking.

You just kinda killed the whole premise of the Doma arc with that, right there, man. That timing alone would make the arc basically pointless. It wouldn't even be Doma anymore with those suggestions.

Originally Posted by Lil_Yugi

Still, it's not like Gozaburo wasn't enough of a monster that he wouldn't sell weapons to both sides anyway, and him conjuring up a storm is a little too much power for him to have. I can accept him being the one to give Varon his Armor deck, though.

Hmm, if that power is too much of a problem then maybe we can change the backstory a bit, for example, in Rafael's case say that Dartz used his influence to replace the crew of the ship with his own men that led the ship to disaster or something like that.

Originally Posted by russ869

For me to enjoy a manga of Doma it would have to occur BEFORE Battle City. I think any arc that comes between Battle City and the finale of the series (including R) ruins the momentum of the story.

In other words, the God cards shouldn't play into Doma. Particularly when it's established that only chosen ones can use the cards and therefore they would have been useless to Dartz's followers.

Nah, Doma would lose most, if not all of its punch if Yugi had no idea he was a pharaoh. As for God cards, they pretty much were useless to Dartz's men, except that one time Gurimo summoned Obelisk (which, admittedly, shouldn't have been allowed to happen).

Still these were kind of cool characters, so having an arc centering around a some secret cult and "Super Dragon Cards" could probably at least turn out better than R if done right. Basically Dartz needs a better motivation. The YGO 4kids! dub constantly had villians ranting about taking over/destorying the world. In reality, this was never the true motivation of any YGO villain ever (EXCEPT DARTZ!). So yeah, there needs to be some more complex reason for this arc to happen. And YGO has already had it's share of revenge story arcs so I'd rather it be something more original.

Ending the world wasn't in itself a motivation for Dartz. He started doing what he was doing because he was disenchanted by humanity, but eventually got corrupted by power and transformed into a nutjob with a God complex. That's not too shabby as far as villain motivation goes. Dartz is also unique among Yugioh villains in one other thing, and that's the fact that he was convinced he was doing the world a favor. I wouldn't want that turned into another bullet on the long list of villains who were in it for personal gain.

Damn, couldn't have said it better. Sure YGO is a game series, but there is no reason why it has to be the same card game in every single arc. Just think how awesome YGO filler could be if they came up with original games. Malik in Battle City used card games becuase his goal was to acquire the God cards. Dartz already stole the God cards (a much better strategy) so why would he need to know how to duel?!

Much as I agree that it's more than a bit silly in Doma's case, the card game is what gives Yugioh focus. I don't think that taking that out would make the idea of a a doomsday cult collecting souls through any sort of game sound any more plausible.

Originally Posted by Dr_Watson

I'm not convinced the Puzzle's power even needs to be inferior to the Orichlcos for the story to work. They could just be two different incompatible forms of ancient magic. And besides, Yugi was already not big on using his black magic powers by the time Doma rolled in. To use them against Dartz and his men would only mean proving Dartz's point.

Not to mention, since you've mentioned the whole 'Let's not penalty-game sh!t left right and centre' development, Yugi may well be reluctant to use the Puzzle in any attempt at fighting back, especially when I don't think either Yugi or Atem know the full extent of its powers, and when facing such a powerful and unknown force.

Originally Posted by Ryusaki

Considering nobody takes Gurimo's body to a hospital after the duel I have a hard time believing he could have possibly survived the time it takes Yugi to defeat Doma. It would have been nice to have this confirmed, although it would have been an almost sadistically grim touch. But how many children did you kill, Doma arc?

Well, considering this is a discussion of a re-write, we can easily have them take him to hospital. Although I agree with Dr Watson, in that there should only be so much time he can survive, even with life support or what-have-you. It really would up the sense of urgency on a very personal level.

I agree on making use of the Tenmas and the Card Profs too. Yakou can easily serve as Plot-exo man and Pegasus fill-in, and any of the more charismatic Card Profs, or even Gekkou could easily fill Otogi and/or Rebecca's shoes.
As for potential Haga and Ryusaki replacements... Would it be too far-fetched to potentially use some old Penalty Game victims? Assuming a capability of coming out the end of a Penalty game with a grudge, Dartz could easily have tracked down Atem's victims and used them against him once he knew Yugi was onto him. And being the type of people they were, they're not likely to turn down power. And even if they did, there's mind hax. This would also give more to the Atem-Guilt-Trip line of the story, and allow some further development and follow up to some very charismatic characters, who may have got less dignified treatment later one *coughUshiocough*

Ha ha haa...! I laugh every time I see someone describe R characters like Yakou Tenma as "manga canon."

>.>

R was created by Kazuki Takahashi's previous assistant with his supervision in his "studio." It doesn't contradict the plot in anyway, shape, or form (well, maybe with Yugi's deck being played. I faintly remember something about his friends being suprised that he's using a deck they haven't seen before, but I don't know.)

It's canon is pretty debatable, and you can't really state that it is or isn't.

Originally Posted by Ragna

It doesn't contradict the plot in anyway, shape, or form (well, maybe with Yugi's deck being played. I faintly remember something about his friends being suprised that he's using a deck they haven't seen before, but I don't know.)

That still works anyway doesn't it? I'm pretty sure only Gekkou witnessed Yugi's duel, so the deck would still be a surprise to his other friends.

Originally Posted by DarkYami

That still works anyway doesn't it? I'm pretty sure only Gekkou witnessed Yugi's duel, so the deck would still be a surprise to his other friends.

Anzu saw it too.

I'd have to check the Memory Eorld arc though, just to make sure I'm not wrong about that even being a plot hole in the first place. The problem is I don't own it. ;.;

DOMA already had a manga. It was called Yu-Gi-Oh! R and while imperfect, it was a hundred times better than that anime filler nonsense.