Thread: Manga Doma Project!

The difference is, Bakura had to cheat in order to fully exploit and curbstomp Yugi and his friends.

Dartz played absolutely fair.

...Why would his deck be any weaker? You think Dartz has an opponent limiter or something that makes his deck change depending on how good his opponent is? Dartz's deck, is his deck. The cards should conceivably be the same regardless of if he faces one, two, or three opponents. I don't see how the number of opponents factors into how overpowered his card effects are.

The Mirror Knight thing wasn't exactly fair.

I'm talking from the writers point of view. Dartz is the final villain of the arc, so he has to be difficult. But since they wanted him to face Atem and Kaiba at once, they had to make his deck strong enough to face them.
If you change the story so Dartz only faces Atem, then his deck could be made considerably weaker.

Originally Posted by cag

The Mirror Knight thing wasn't exactly fair.

I'm talking from the writers point of view. Dartz is the final villain of the arc, so he has to be difficult. But since they wanted him to face Atem and Kaiba at once, they had to make his deck strong enough to face them.
If you change the story so Dartz only faces Atem, then his deck could be made considerably weaker.

It was still within game mechanics though. Dartz merely added the supernatural element to mind screw Yugi and Kaiba. He didn't cheat or deliberately go outside the game mechanics of the duel to bend the rules.

And if that were the writer's point of view. They failed. Because it was stupid nonsense that was cliche.

It still affected the game.

Well, as I said, I disagree, but since this thread is about fixing the problems of Doma...

Originally Posted by cag

It still affected the game.

Well, as I said, I disagree, but since this thread is about fixing the problems of Doma...

Well no sh!t, but it wasn't cheating. It was an attempt to tear at their feelings, but he didn't break the rules of the game, no matter how nonsensical his cards were.

And yes. You're not getting anywhere arguing that Dartz's deck is anywhere near sensical or logical. That's not this thread's topic.

I don't think that it really matters, the cheating was still part of his power.

Well, that's why I'm preposing a solution.

...Dartz never cheated. You can't claim he was cheating because he broke no rules in the game.

And what solution are you proposing, because the only one that will work is changing the deck he uses in the anime to be something less nonsensical.

I'm talking about Bakura...

What I'm saying is that facing Kaiba and Atem at once pretty much forces you to give Dartz an overpowered deck. Make it one on one and Dartz's deck could be powered down.

And really, look at the Memory Arc, Zorc curb stomps everyone until Atem gets his name. He even cuts Exodia in half. If that's not overpowered, I don't know what is. But it's perfectly fine, as Zorc is the story final villain and has to face many opponents at once. Same goes for Dartz(well except the final villain part of course).

Okay, Bakura cheated once but then he stopped. What's your point? The game went on as normal and according to the rules. Why are you even comparing him to Dartz?

Eh, that would still necessitate changing his deck, so in the end, that's the same thing. But I still think having it be 2 on 1 would make it interesting. It'd give something for Kaiba to do, and beats just having Yugi solo the final boss.

Zorc is a god of darkness, first of all. Considering Exodia is still just a ka regulated to using the ba of a mortal man as a source of energy for its materialization, it makes sense that Zorc would still be capable of defeating it, even if it could regenerate. Because as stated, a ka uses its summoner's ba as energy. Once the ba runs dry, the ka is defeated. Zorc merely outlasted him. If Exodia had a vast ba comparable to Zorc's darkness from the underworld, than maybe Exodia would've stood a chance.

Zorc is a god. Dartz is a ghost.

Dartz is a 10000 years old man who manipulated the world for that much time. He's possesed by a dark god. He's the arc's final villain. Of course he's going to be overpowered. I'm sorry, but this just sounds like a double standard.

Originally Posted by cag

Dartz is a 10000 years old man who manipulated the world for that much time. He's possesed by a dark god. He's the arc's final villain. Of course he's going to be overpowered. I'm sorry, but this just sounds like a double standard.

Dartz was being used by a god, but he wasn't possessed until he actually gave his soul to it, and became the hulking monstrosity that was defeated by the gods.

If he were possessed by it, why would he need to offer his soul to it and then merge with it?

Dartz is 10,000 years old, but he's still a ghost. He's just extremely wise and powerful.

Zorc is the ultimate god of darkness itself. That's from the official story proper.

I think that the his green eye, and the drastic change from before he got it and after he lost it compared to the time he had it shows that he's more than just used. And even if he's not actually possesed by it, it still gives him power.

Originally Posted by cag

I think that the his green eye, and the drastic change from before he got it and after he lost it compared to the time he had it shows that he's more than just used. And even if he's not actually possesed by it, it still gives him power.

No, he was corrupted by the actual power of the Orichalcos. It altered his mind and twisted him with its power but he was not possessed. He wasn't a meat suit for the Orichalcos God. He was still himself, but evil. Just like all those who are corrupted by the stone are themselves but evil. He was not an actual god.

Dartz is still not equivalent to a god of the actual darkness.

But the god is still the source of his power.

Originally Posted by cag

But the god is still the source of his power.

Bakura's source of power was Zorc, but he wasn't broken as hell either. Dartz shouldn't be so powerful that he eclipses the actual canon final enemy of the story, and takes the dueling to a stupid direction. Especially if he's only using a part of his god's power, and isn't a full blown god of darkness proper like Zorc. It makes no sense at all.

Not in the same way, Dartz's cards were created by the god. And I don't think Dartz really eclipses Zorc. Dartz was beaten by the three seperate gods, Zorc by their combined form.

Originally Posted by cag

Not in the same way, Dartz's cards were created by the god. And I don't think Dartz really eclipses Zorc. Dartz was beaten by the three seperate gods, Zorc by their combined form.

...Who says the Oricalchos god created Dartz's cards? If that were true, that makes it even more stupid and overpowered. Again. Having his cards be created by some stupid supernatural force of darkness just seems so contrived and ridiculous.

And yeah. When compared to Bakura, and Zorc, he at least seems comparable, if not greater. Yeah, Zorc was beaten by the fusion of the three god cards. But the Orichalcos god was defeated by the three at the same time. It's not that different at all.

Well, we see the the seal was created by the stones. Also, wasn't Yugi's Memory arc deck created from his imagination?

Comparable, maybe, but superior? And I think it's pretty obvious that the fusion is stronger than all the gods together. Otherwise there would be no need for the fusion.

I always assumed Dartz had a Ye Olde Atlantean Model I2 Printing Press to print cards in awesome Enochian.

What the hell is a Ge anyways, in terms of Dartz's ace monster. I got most of what Dartz's monsters were referring to. (Also, What's a Kyutora). Everything else in his deck makes some sort of sense off and on.

Originally Posted by cag

Well, we see the the seal was created by the stones. Also, wasn't Yugi's Memory arc deck created form his imagination?

Comparable, maybe, but superior? And I think it's pretty obvious that the fusion is stronger than all the gods together. Otherwise there would be no need for the fusion.

Yugi's deck wasn't created by his imagination, it was created from his memory of his real deck. As was Bakura's. They weren't literally created on the spot.

And again. It's about the presentation. Between the over the top, broken cards Dartz used, the fact Dartz is trying to take over the world, is bringing about the apocalypse, and is summarily defeated in the sky in the most epic fight seen in the world with duel monsters, it just thematically dwarfs the original end of the story. People went on about how the hell the Memory World arc was gonna be able to follow such an act that went that far. And to twist the knife in even further, the Memory World arc had so many holes and bad animation, it looked like a joke.

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

I always assumed Dartz had a Ye Olde Atlantean Model I2 Printing Press to print cards in awesome Enochian.

What the hell is a Ge anyways, in terms of Dartz's ace monster. I got most of what Dartz's monsters were referring to. (Also, What's a Kyutora). Everything else in his deck makes some sort of sense off and on.

Considering Dartz has every card in existence save for the God cards, that's a reasonable, and likely correct assumption.

And I have no clue what Ge is. Or Kytora. They just seem like random monsters. Maybe there's no meaning.

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

I always assumed Dartz had a Ye Olde Atlantean Model I2 Printing Press to print cards in awesome Enochian.

What the hell is a Ge anyways, in terms of Dartz's ace monster. I got most of what Dartz's monsters were referring to. (Also, What's a Kyutora). Everything else in his deck makes some sort of sense off and on.

Yeah, that works too.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Yugi's deck wasn't created by his imagination, it was created from his memory of his real deck. As was Bakura's. They weren't literally created on the spot.

And again. It's about the presentation. Between the over the top, broken cards Dartz used, the fact Dartz is trying to take over the world, is bringing about the apocalypse, and is summarily defeated in the sky in the most epic fight seen in the world with duel monsters, it just thematically dwarfs the original end of the story. People went on about how the hell the Memory World arc was gonna be able to follow such an act that went that far. And to twist the knife in even further, the Memory World arc had so many holes and bad animation, it looked like a joke.

Alright.

Not really, anime Memory Arc had the world devastation thing in it too, I'm not sure about the manga (I should really read it again), but even then it's pretty obvious what will happen if Bakura wins. And the arc ends with a fusion of the 3 gods and a final battle between Yugi and Atem, you can't get much more epic than that. Anime Memory Arc definitely had a lot of problems (seems like they tried to change things and keep them the same in the same time and that resulted in a mess) but that's a subject for another topic, I think.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

And again. It's about the presentation. Between the over the top, broken cards Dartz used, the fact Dartz is trying to take over the world, is bringing about the apocalypse, and is summarily defeated in the sky in the most epic fight seen in the world with duel monsters, it just thematically dwarfs the original end of the story.

Not to mention the fact that he was apparently also capable of shape-shifting, weather control, telekinesis, canceling out the magical properties of the Tablet of Memories and possibly even clairvoyance, on top of being nearly immortal. The guy is a complete Villain Sue and needs to have his ridiculous powers knocked down several notches. For instance, he could have just had the museum closed for the day when Yugi went in to get his memories back. After the God Cards get stolen five hours from then, the tablet stops being of any use to Yugi, anyway. But nooo, he had to freeze the damn thing with his magical powers B|.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

What the heck though, nothing ever said anything about that in the subs or....anywhere. I guess GoldenUmi made a mistake?

Human error, I suppose. Not meant as a crack, but GoldenUmi isn't quite that experienced at Japanese.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

The only monster that ever had infinite attack was Obelisk, and that was only for ONE turn. One. Not forever. Ge is just utterly broken and overpowered. Not to mention the fact it has the absurd effect to let you somehow remain in the duel, EVEN if your life points are zero.

It breaks the game mechanics beyond anything plausible or believable. It's absurd. Infinite attack AND the ability to keep you from losing is retarded.

So it's beyond beyond the impossible. Seriously guys...

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

It's vulnerable to monster effects but umm. That doesn't make it anymore balanced AT ALL. It has 1 vulnerability but is perfect in almost every single way. Uh, no. Not fair. It's just plain stupid. Stupid beyond acceptance. It brought down the entire duel to a level of random nonsense.

I could argue the Seal did that a long time ago, and Dartz just ran with it...

Originally Posted by cag

The HK bootlegs say, in their mangled way, "I'll offer more than 10000 Life Points" and it definitely sounds like Dartz says "ichi man ijou no life" as part of the cost.

I've heard things that I thought meant one thing but turned out to be another - for example thinking the MC said "Could Jack Atlus have been crushed?" when he said "Could Jack Atlus have crashed?" - but yeah, that's pretty jarring.

Originally Posted by Tatsunoboshi Horoko

蛇神ゲー．．．これぞ我が最強のしもべ
オレイカルコス・シュノロスの攻撃力が０になった時、１００００以上のライフとすべての手札を捧げ特殊召喚される。私のライフは消滅しゲーが破壊された時、私の敗北となる。

"Serpent God Ge...This is my mightiest of servants. When Orichalcos Shunoros' attack power drops to 0, it Special Summons itself by giving up over 10000 Life Points and my entire hand. My Life Points are now gone and when Ge is destroyed, I will lose."

Therefore...

『効果』
「オレイカルコス・シュノロス」と名の付いたモンスターの攻撃力が０になった時に自分のライフポイントが１ ００００以上だった場合、すべての手札を墓地に捨ててこのカードを手札から特殊召喚する事が出来る。このカ ードが攻撃宣言した時、自分のデッキの一番上から１０枚カードを墓地に送らなければならない。このカードが フィールドに存在しなくなった時、このカードの持ち主はデュエルに敗北する。

Effect:
"When an "Orichalcos Shunoros'" ATK is reduced to 0 and your Life Points are 10000 or more, you can discard your entire hand and Special Summon this card from your hand. When this card declares an attack, you must send 10 cards from the top of your deck to the Graveyard. When this card is removed from the field, this card's owner loses the Duel."

Where did you get this?

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Well I guess I have to eat my own head now.

Don't do that; brains are all fat...

Originally Posted by cag

That's still overpowered...

What I meant that his deck is powerful to compensate for the fact that he faced two strong duelists at once. If he only had to face one, his deck would probably be weaker.

No... he just would have trampled the person he fought. People don't 'water down' their Decks, especially not elitist villains.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

...Dartz never cheated. You can't claim he was cheating because he broke no rules in the game.

Technically, yes; but Season 4 really said 'screw the rules' so much it's like a mantra...

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

I always assumed Dartz had a Ye Olde Atlantean Model I2 Printing Press to print cards in awesome Enochian...

...that really don't say anything at all.

Where did you get this?

The first part is dialogue from the episode. The second part (including the Japanese) is my parsing of its effect based on the episode dialogue.

Originally Posted by Tatsunoboshi Horoko

The first part is dialogue from the episode. The second part (including the Japanese) is my parsing of its effect based on the episode dialogue.

Yeah, I gathered that. Where did you get the transcription of the lines? Either you happened to find a page with them, or you made it yourself.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Yeah, I gathered that. Where did you get the transcription of the lines? Either you happened to find a page with them, or you made it yourself.

..Horoko speaks and understands Japanese. He's capable of transcribing what he hears.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

..Horoko speaks and understands Japanese. He's capable of transcribing what he hears.

That makes sense; but unless he has a special Japanese keyboard, I assume he also uses software to write it. Since, you know, you can't just type romaji and have auto-correct change it like that.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

You just kinda killed the whole premise of the Doma arc with that, right there, man. That timing alone would make the arc basically pointless. It wouldn't even be Doma anymore with those suggestions.

Exactly! In the same way, the timing of Doma in the anime alone makes the canon storyline seem like totally discontinuous nonsense. It's hardly even the same story anymore with their additions. Doma kinda killed the premise of YGO anime continuing to be awesome after Battle City.

Originally Posted by Dr_Watson

Nah, Doma would lose most, if not all of its punch if Yugi had no idea he was a pharaoh.

How did Yuugi being a Pharaoh majorly play into this arc?

Dartz is also unique among Yugioh villains in one other thing, and that's the fact that he was convinced he was doing the world a favor. I wouldn't want that turned into another bullet on the long list of villains who were in it for personal gain.

Yeah, even if that's unique to Yuugiou, it certainly isn't to anime. And I can't think of any kind of villain I hate more than the kind of moron who thinks he's doing a good thing to kill EVERYBODY!

Much as I agree that it's more than a bit silly in Doma's case, the card game is what gives Yugioh focus. I don't think that taking that out would make the idea of a a doomsday cult collecting souls through any sort of game sound any more plausible.

Right, this whole thing was just trying to be way too "epic." Like it thinks it's freakin' Naruto Shippuden or something. Yuugiou was much better when it was more down-to-earth.

Originally Posted by DarkYami

Would it be too far-fetched to potentially use some old Penalty Game victims? Assuming a capability of coming out the end of a Penalty game with a grudge, Dartz could easily have tracked down Atem's victims and used them against him once he knew Yugi was onto him.

That's actually great idea. Especially seeing as how "coming out of a Penalty Game with a grudge" is basically Kaiba's origin story. But that's probably why Takahashi never did that again.

Originally Posted by Ragna

R was created by Kazuki Takahashi's previous assistant with his supervision in his "studio." It doesn't contradict the plot in anyway, shape, or form.

It's canon is pretty debatable, and you can't really state that it is or isn't.

It most certainly DOES contradict the plot. It's structured more as a complicated "What if?" scenario (like most Shonen Jump movies are). You're supposed to read it and go "Wow, that was fun!" not "Oh...! I had no idea that the characters were secretly doing all this stuff that they never mentioned or thought about afterward between this story arc and this story arc..."

Besides, just because something is consistent with an original work doesn't make it part of that original work.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Except that's the point of this thread; improving that "anime filler nonsense" to be manga-worthy.

I don't think it can be made "manga-worthy." We might as well just start a topic for suggesting original manga plots then.

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

And Kaiba's game led to him creating the entire Solid Vision technology and ultimately led to him becoming a mature adult who wants to make children like him and his brother happy (for profit, but we can't fault him on wanting to get some action out of making people happy.)

Kaiba's dream of making children happy with games started as a kid, before Gozaburo corrupted him. Yuugi's penalty game gave him the idea for the holographic enhancements to his favorite card game, but he already had his plans for Kaiba Land before then.

Another penalty game victim who returns briefly is that guy Yuugi played the Rock'em-Sock'em Robots thing with. He doesn't seem to have changed his ways much. Still bullying and beating up on other gamers. Maybe the horror of Obelisk finally changed that.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Nothing at all, ever says anything about Dartz needing his life points to be 10,000. I don't know what you're talking about, but no one has ever said that, and it's been around for years in Japanese and English. So yeah. It's not a requirement.

LOL! They say things all the time in the show that doesn't fit with the text of any real card.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

I guess GoldenUmi made a mistake?

I was literally quoting the exact subtitles in the episode. Oh well, I was wrong apparently. Thanks for the clarification.

Even he doesn't claim to be infallible. You were getting a little crazy there.

Originally Posted by russ869

How did Yuugi being a Pharaoh majorly play into this arc?

Have you seen the finale of the arc? Even if you disregard that, it plays in on all sorts of things that wouldn't have been there if Battle City hadn't already happened. Like the availability of Duel Disks, and Yugi's concern over possibly causing the destruction of Egypt + his sudden sense of responsibility to everyone and everything, and not just Yugi and his friends, the character development that led to Kaiba not being an insufferable jerk, etc etc.

Yeah, even if that's unique to Yuugiou, it certainly isn't to anime. And I can't think of any kind of villain I hate more than the kind of moron who thinks he's doing a good thing to kill EVERYBODY!

If you have a better idea for Dartz, feel free to share your thoughts. Maybe he just wanted to be a family man? Oh, wait, we had that with Pegasus. Or maybe he just wanted revenge for having his life plans foiled over and over again? Oh no, that's what Malik was all about, wasn't it? Destroying the world, just because? Ah, right, Bakura. Payback for a failed business scheme? Except, that Siegfried guy already did that (and Otogi in the anime). I certainly prefer the more down to Earth villains whose motives I can personally relate to, but there's only so many villainous schemes you can come up with before it all starts repeating itself.

Right, this whole thing was just trying to be way too "epic." Like it thinks it's freakin' Naruto Shippuden or something. Yuugiou was much better when it was more down-to-earth.

Even when it was down to Earth, it still had Malik trying to beat Yugi in a Game of Darkness, as opposed to just killing him when he had the chance. Not to mention all the vandals and thugs who could have easily beaten him up or worse, but chose to play games with him instead. Is that the sort of thing that would ever happen in the real world?

I'm really glad Russ let me know about this, because I have to clear something up before there are any more misconceptions...

While I do really work hard on these scripts and try my best to research as much as I can, as Horoko mentioned, I am a novice. The only reason I've been translating the series is for you people, the fans. I'm not doing it to claim any experience I don't have or get praised. I do have a memory for a lot of vocabulary, but that doesn't make me experienced in the slightest. I'd like to eventually take up proper studying of the language from scratch.

Anyway, I'm bringing this up because I don't want any of you swearing by my translations as if they are 100% accurate. Any confusion on my translations should be brought up with someone completely experienced like Horoko or any of the other good people on this forum who can read, speak and write the language.

Although, the strange thing is I remember processing the effect properly in my head, with him having to have more than 10,000 LP and all, but somehow it never came out in my translations. Oh well, I'm glad you all took notice of it and I will eventually make a fixed script for you all.

Finally, if Horoko gets around to releasing his versions, I'd suggest replacing my scripts with his if you want complete accuracy. Think of mine as something in between that and a speed sub.

Well you do a great job, man, so don't feel so bad. You make the dialog so good, and enjoyable. So if nothing else you make them understandable and entertaining. So thanks again for that! It's very much appreciated ^^

If anything, I do try really hard to make each character's personality show in English.

Well no matter if GU is not Horoko XD.

His subs are still 100 times better than HK subs OR none subs AT ALL.

We only can make his releases better if POINT anything we assume as an error in his forum.
Every translations we don't understand if they can be done to flow better.

As for how to make the Pharaoh play the Oreichalcos card.
You all forget that in the anime he had a piece of the DAMN OREICHACOS STONE on his neck.
Come on he was wearing that thing almost all the time until his duel with Raphael.
Does no one remember that its not the card. It was the stone that made the ppl evil. The card was just an add-on for stealing souls.
Its the very same one kind that rained on Atlantis thousands of years ago.

I can very well imagine knights that wear a piece of it on their neck like the real live crusaders from our past with their swords blessed/imbued by the power of the Oreichalcos God just like the cards in their present.
Radding around killing, sword dueling. And even maybe every time they stab someone with such a sword their soul instead to go to the afterlife to be sealed in it/send to Dartz's tower for food for their god.
Not to mention Dartz himself had a special sword with which he almost killed 1 of the special anti-Oreichalcos dragons.
OR maybe the soul stealing to happen only after a sword duel which in the past was probably more common than a children's card game duel.

Its the stones influence just like The One Ring. There is no difference.
Well except that Dartz has probably unlimited pieces of the stone to spread around . Well the idea is to get ppl that are loyal to the bone and do his soul gathering work.

I can very well imagine that if he really did live 10 000 years. It can't be the first time that he influences the lives of normal ppl that he chose to be his assassins. Problem is that he is immortal and he cannot make his chosen ones immortal too. It won't be healthy anyway if any of them snap off or realize its all his fault for their misery.

Originally Posted by russ869

Exactly! In the same way, the timing of Doma in the anime alone makes the canon storyline seem like totally discontinuous nonsense. It's hardly even the same story anymore with their additions. Doma kinda killed the premise of YGO anime continuing to be awesome after Battle City.

Your solution to "the timeline doesn't work" is "change the timeline so it still doesn't work... just in a different way". Need I point something out about that?

I think it can be made "manga-worthy." We might as well just start a topic for suggesting original manga plots then.

If you wanna do that, go ahead.

Originally Posted by GoldenUmi

While I do really work hard on these scripts and try my best to research as much as I can, as Horoko mentioned, I am a novice. The only reason I've been translating the series is for you people, the fans. I'm not doing it to claim any experience I don't have or get praised. I do have a memory for a lot of vocabulary, but that doesn't make me experienced in the slightest. I'd like to eventually take up proper studying of the language from scratch.

Hdey man, no big deal. You did a great job, that's all that matters.

Although, the strange thing is I remember processing the effect properly in my head, with him having to have more than 10,000 LP and all, but somehow it never came out in my translations. Oh well, I'm glad you all took notice of it and I will eventually make a fixed script for you all.

Dude, I've seen translations that omit/inject entire LINES. One phrase isn't that big.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Well you do a great job, man, so don't feel so bad. You make the dialog so good, and enjoyable. So if nothing else you make them understandable and entertaining. So thanks again for that! It's very much appreciated ^^

This.

Originally Posted by DARKMASTER

His subs are still 100 times better than HK subs OR none subs AT ALL.

While I agree about no subs, the "HK subs" thing really isn't saying much. I could ask a deaf guy what they were saying and get better lines than "Grave Robber can take cards from the place." Seriously.

As for how to make the Pharaoh play the Oreichalcos card.
You all forget that in the anime he had a piece of the DAMN OREICHACOS STONE on his neck.
Come on he was wearing that thing almost all the time until his duel with Raphael.
Does no one remember that its not the card. It was the stone that made the ppl evil. The card was just an add-on for stealing souls.
Its the very same one kind that rained on Atlantis thousands of years ago.

That and, you know, it was the only possible way to not lose given his situation...

I can very well imagine knights that wear a piece of it on their neck like the real live crusaders from our past with their swords blessed/imbued by the power of the Oreichalcos God just like the cards in their present.
Radding around killing, sword dueling. And even maybe every time they stab someone with such a sword their soul instead to go to the afterlife to be sealed in it/send to Dartz's tower for food for their god.
Not to mention Dartz himself had a special sword with which he almost killed 1 of the special anti-Oreichalcos dragons.
OR maybe the soul stealing to happen only after a sword duel which in the past was probably more common than a children's card game duel.

New dimension of awesome: DM's manga ideas.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

It was still within game mechanics though. Dartz merely added the supernatural element to mind screw Yugi and Kaiba. He didn't cheat or deliberately go outside the game mechanics of the duel to bend the rules.

Isn't a repeated theme in Yuugiou that CHEATING IS A PART OF THE GAME MECHANICS!! Often bending the rules is THE POINT OF THE GAME!

But at the same time that games are meant to be conducted within the confines of mutually agreed terms. So in other words there was nothing wrong with Bakura cheating at that point, because they had never made a rule that said "No cheating!" But then as soon as Yuugi started cheating too, they both agreed to the new rule not to.

..Umm..no it's not actually.

And yes. Manipulating a dice roll is gobsmackingly obvious cheating. Any sane and reasonable person would expect that modicum of gameplay respect to be followed. Cheating is an understood no-no in any sort of game, period.

I fail to see what point you're making.

If they don't brake the anime's duel rules/mechanics everything else is mind screw and psychological war/way to influence your opponent to make a mistake.
The only other 100% cheating I remember was when Seig edited the official effect text of Golden Caster Stromberg. And, oh yeah when Keith dueled Jou.
You can accuse Dartz only of creating his own cards since its never have been stated in any way that he got them in magical ways just like our 3 chosen duelists got their Super Special Awesome dragons.
So we go on the other end of the spectrum just from seeing the card pool available to him. And also taking into consideration his influence in the business world which was tremendous according to what the Kaibas said. SO yeah he did use his big boss power to make his own children's card game cards. JUST LIKE PEGASUS.
Well since the creator of the game did it why not someone that is so much more than a simple man with a company. Its hard to call that he really cheated there.
Of course he did use a lot of mindscrew after all he is a villain.

Thanks again guys.

And I don't get what all the beef with Doma is. Yes, it's filler and interrupts the final arc, but I thought a lot of things were a nice segway, with Yami Yugi going through a stage of self-doubt and reflection. I also thought Dartz was a great villain. You guys misunderstand what the implication was, IMO. I didn't take it that Dartz had anything to do with Zork or Bakura at ALL in the Memory arc. He was simply a by-passer who witnessed yet another change in history, not unlike Atlantis, wars, or anything else in history. I actually thought it was a nice little cameo and a good way to make it fit into history. But it's not like Dartz said he stole any souls from Egypt or interfered in any way. In fact, he blamed Egypt's downfall on Atem, only because he had no idea himself what was really going on behind the scenes, and in irony was also ignorant himself for a change.

And I don't get what all the beef with Doma is.

Duel. Spirit. World. is the main RAGE QUIT point from what I've observed. Then it goes into the fact Raphael creates a time paradox. And abuse of Mai's character. And a Living KinzoPegasus.

And the problem even greater is that GX and 5D's expands into the Duel Spirit World and GX even has Pegasus as a character!

And so let me rephrase. What is everyone's problem with the Duel Monsters Spirit world?

From what I understand of the camp who hates it:

It conflicts with the Ka Origins of Duel Monsters, and insults and slaps Kazuki's Ancient Egypt Arc and spits on it. The concept of Duel Spirits and living Duel Monsters comes over as incompatiable. And they hate the Cliche of a Happy Monster World with Happy Lover, Petit Angel, Key Mace, Tyhone and the like living with Dark Necrofear, Doomcalibur Knight, and Cyber End Dragon in can-can Tastes Like Diabetes Harmony.

After that, the idea of Duel Monsters dueling comes over to many folk as absurd and ludicrous.

And then there's the problem every time the Duel Spirit World comes up, the show turns goes kinda... goofy. Ruka's arc against Zeman was a massive mood breaker against the angst and despair and misery of the Dark Signer Arc. Most of Season 3 of GX comes off as a bad acid trip. And Doma... the whole Duel Spirit World comes over as PASTED ONZ YEYZ.

tl;dr: It conflicts with the manga's canon origin of Duel Monsters and the writers/executives use it BADLY.

It's also an extremely cliche idea that is used in EVERY OTHER card game anime.

Well, I personally have no problem with it overall. The only reasoning above I actually agree with is the GX stuff where they suddenly started Dueling as spirits, which was stupid indeed, a plot twist that was dropped in 5D's, luckily.

As far as it interfering with the original canon, well to a point, it does. But I view it differently than you people. I can accept the spirits of DM existing long before hand, and just simply more powerful Monsters being created during the Egypt period, as the Priests drew out the Ka's of sinners. The "darkness of the heart" theme started in Doma really fits well with that concept, IMO. And I doubt Takahashi agrees with you guys about them "spitting" on his work. If he felt that way, why would he contribute willingly to have continued the anime version this long into spinoffs?

I will admit that the Memory arc overall is much better in the manga. I did like the adaption of the battles against Bakura, the Zork fight and the Ceremonial Battle. But the Seto fight was terrible and the way they handled it really ruined it. It was still touching, but not nearly as much.

I'll admit that now it's kinda hard to hate Doma in light of what YGO's spinoffs have derped out.

Doma looks like fried gold compared to 5Ds and GX.

Despite its mistakes Doma had an air of...sophisitication, epicness and quality that made the filler so much more enjoyable and engrossing. It wasn't a mass marketing strategy, or a gimmick to fanwank a character.

It was a story. They actually gave a damn in their own way.

They made some mistakes though, and had some truly facepalm cliches, but in the end you did enjoy it. So while it bugs me, it doesn't bug me as much as it 2 years ago and beyond.

Originally Posted by GoldenUmi

Well, I personally have no problem with it overall. The only reasoning above I actually agree with is the GX stuff where they suddenly started Dueling as spirits, which was stupid indeed, a plot twist that was dropped in 5D's, luckily.

As far as it interfering with the original canon, well to a point, it does. But I view it differently than you people. I can accept the spirits of DM existing long before hand, and just simply more powerful Monsters being created during the Egypt period, as the Priests drew out the Ka's of sinners. The "darkness of the heart" theme started in Doma really fits well with that concept, IMO. And I doubt Takahashi agrees with you guys about them "spitting" on his work. If he felt that way, why would he contribute willingly to have continued the anime version this long into spinoffs?

I will admit that the Memory arc overall is much better in the manga. I did like the adaption of the battles against Bakura, the Zork fight and the Ceremonial Battle. But the Seto fight was terrible and the way they handled it really ruined it. It was still touching, but not nearly as much.

My position on this issue is exactly the same as Umi's.

@Mako: Indeed very much.

At the very least, we can all agree Doma doesn't hold a candle to Battle City or the Memory arc. I actually like the Noah arc better than it too.

One thing I do agree on with what DARK MASTER and Russ have said in the past is that if we are to get another spinoff series, it needs to return to the core roots of the manga and not focus on the card games as much.