Thread: The Mechanics and Mysticism of Cards and Duel Monsters

The bat-wing projectors are stupid overall. They were a stupid anime addition that serves no real purpose, and are best forgotten since they're wholly unnecessary and are an addition that shouldn't have been created. The Solid Vision system is projected via satellite. The projectors are unnecessary seeing as how the Duel Disk themselves and the floating Kaiba Corp Satellites provide the actual manifestation of the monsters.

It's a redundant mechanic. Another one of the many anime additions that proved to be a bad idea. Like the Dia-Dahnk.

Originally Posted by Ryusaki

The bat-winged projectors were anime-only.

Oh, wait. Epic fail on my part. That's just what I get for my Battle City knowledge coming from a few raw pages and Edo's summaries. XD

You can't even begin to compare an addition with so little effect and importance that the addition doesn't really matter, like the projectors to the Dia-dhank. You just can't.

You're right, that is a low blow. I'm sorry. Sometimes my sword of rage towards NAS cuts indiscriminately.

Originally Posted by Arynis

What happened to the monster concept? (Or alternately, what's with the Soul Room concept, in that case?)

Or the room represents the person themselves, while the monster is like, an extension of a person's personality? Aren't they supposed to be the same thing?

Or is this another case of Takahashi making stuff up as he went along? The Soul Room concept was around in the very early parts of the manga, while the "monsters in the heart" concept was introduced pre-Battle City.

Shadi also used the Millennium Scales and the greedy museum director was devoured by a monster. Was that supposed to be a "monster from his own dark heart?" I don't remember. I can check my manga later...

Originally Posted by Lil_Yugi

The god cards aren't spirits. They're actual gods, capable of casting judgment on people for nothing short of just pissing them off. The god cards were the only cards that were "cards that were more than cards" the other cards like Blue-eyes and Black Magician are more along the lines of the "card's heart" thing and the repetition of destiny. The cards only represented their past incarnations, and the reason each character had the favortie card that they did is because destiny was repeating itself with Yugi and Kaiba. In short, Black Magician doesn't have the /actual/ spirit of Mahad in it, but is more along the lines of a representation of him.

Perfect. I agree with this interpretation exactly. However, Makoeyes987 does bring some good points of contention.

Originally Posted by Lil_Yugi

Games of Darkness existed elsewhere in the manga too, and the Millenium Tome predates the events in the Memory Arc. The case in point was the Chinese Dragon Cards that Yugi compared to his own Games of Darkness. We don't know who invented the dark magic and the rituals needed to create the items (maybe it was Zork lol) so we can't definately say that Egypt had it first.

Yeah, but just because there are games with dangerous powers similar to the Games of Darkness doesn't mean they both had to have the same origin. That's kind of like the faulty evolution argument that similar things must have come from a common beginning. This is not necessarily the case.

Yuugi was able to bring Magic & Wizards to life and dole out penalty games because of the power of the Games of Darkness given to him by the Millennium Puzzle. However it is proven that there are other magic games with similar effects from other cultures. They could have easily originated from separate cultures, without any kind of precursor who inspired both.

I don't understand people's problem to accept that magic games came about in Egypt, but magic games also came about elsewhere. Why not? Although I guess the manga does make some outlandish claims like "all games came from Egypt."

Originally Posted by Arynis

It's capable of simulating Field Spells (or at least cards which transform the field) such as Kaiba's Colosseum card(?).

The Colosseum wasn't a card! That was just part of the Alcatraz duel arena. Kaiba wanted his 3rd rematch with Yuugi to parallel the epic battle of the Roman gladiators.

But yeah, we did see Duel Disk 2 simulate some field cards. Namely that Royal Temple (or whatever) that Rishid used and Dark Sanctuary (in anime only). I don't think there were any field cards played in the Battle City streets. Was Ryota Kajiki's Sea Stealth II even using an Umi field card?

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

The Solid Vision system is projected via satellite.

Seriously? They how did they do it for the Ceremonial Duel? I was pretty sure that in the manga those light patches on the rim of the Duel Disk were the holo-projectors. There's a detailed layout of the different parts of the Duel Disk 2 in one of the manga volumes (probably the one where it's introduced).

Edit: Well from a 2 second Google search, here's the image in French:



See how it's definitely point to those spots as the "Solid Vision System." That's what's projecting the images.

Originally Posted by russ869

But yeah, we did see Duel Disk 2 simulate some field cards. Namely that Royal Temple (or whatever) that Rishid used and Dark Sanctuary (in anime only). I don't think there were any field cards played in the Battle City streets. Was Ryota Kajiki's Sea Stealth II even using an Umi field card?

Yes, he used Umi. That was a field spell too.

Seriously? They how did they do it for the Ceremonial Duel? I was pretty sure that in the manga those light patches on the rim of the Duel Disk were the holo-projectors. There's a detailed layout of the different parts of the Duel Disk 2 in one of the manga volumes (probably the one where it's introduced).

The Ceremonial Duel wasn't an ordinary duel, first of all. That was more than just a usual duel using Solid Vision. The Magic of the Millennium Items was clearly apparent. Especially considering Atem's duel disk and deck were magical manifestations in and of themselves.

Edit: Well from a 2 second Google search, here's the image in French:



See how it's definitely point to those spots as the "Solid Vision System." That's what's projecting the images.

Awesome scan, thank you. I remember that in my own volume copies. In regards to the Satellite System though, Kaiba says specifically that each Duel Disk is linked up with the Kaiba Corp satellite relay which beams down the solid vision data to each duel disk. I was mistaken in my remembering how it worked. It didn't project the actual solid vision, it projected the data. As in, the data for what card to display and what each monster looked like, and all.

Anyways, I can't remember if it was in this thread or not that we discussed how the duel disks were able to manifest solid vision holograms that were real enough to have tangible force, or create water, and various other such things. And while I was rewatching YGO DM, specifically episode 89, I noticed something.

When both Jou and Rishid got struck by lightning due to Rishid playing the counterfeit Ra, Honda tries to jump in the ring to help them, since they got struck by lightning, but Isono tells him to stop. Kaiba then says that "the duel disk 'Realism System' was not set to a fatal level, so its impossible for them to be in real danger, its just in their heads."

Now I totally forgot about that line. Apparently, Kaiba Corp's technology at the time, allowed for a realistic setting that allowed for the Solid Vision projections to be tangible to varying degrees, and even to a dangerous one.

This of course would tie into his Death-T Duel Box experiments where he tried to recreate the Penalty Game he suffered to the most realistic level as possible...

So yeah. There's your answer. Apparently yes. Kaiba Corp Solid Vision technology was capable of projecting holograms with tangible force and power, even to high levels. Even in the DM era.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

The bat-wing projectors are stupid overall. They were a stupid anime addition that serves no real purpose, and are best forgotten since they're wholly unnecessary and are an addition that shouldn't have been created. The Solid Vision system is projected via satellite. The projectors are unnecessary seeing as how the Duel Disk themselves and the floating Kaiba Corp Satellites provide the actual manifestation of the monsters.

It's a redundant mechanic. Another one of the many anime additions that proved to be a bad idea. Like the Dia-Dahnk.

It's about as redundant as that post.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

You're right, that is a low blow. I'm sorry. Sometimes my sword of rage towards NAS cuts indiscriminately.

Maybe you need a sec to calm down...

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

The Ceremonial Duel wasn't an ordinary duel, first of all. That was more than just a usual duel using Solid Vision. The Magic of the Millennium Items was clearly apparent. Especially considering Atem's duel disk and deck were magical manifestations in and of themselves.

It was also where the idea of R having 6-card hands came from.

Awesome scan, thank you. I remember that in my own volume copies. In regards to the Satellite System though, Kaiba says specifically that each Duel Disk is linked up with the Kaiba Corp satellite relay which beams down the solid vision data to each duel disk. I was mistaken in my remembering how it worked. It didn't project the actual solid vision, it projected the data. As in, the data for what card to display and what each monster looked like, and all.

What is it with NAS and Satellites?

And while I was rewatching YGO DM, specifically episode 89, I noticed something. When both Jou and Rishid got struck by lightning due to Rishid playing the counterfeit Ra, Honda tries to jump in the ring to help them, since they got struck by lightning, but Isono tells him to stop. Kaiba then says that "the duel disk 'Realism System' was not set to a fatal level, so its impossible for them to be in real danger, its just in their heads."

Forgive me for asking such a blunt question, but... HOW THE -EFF- DO YOU SET A HOLOGRAM TO BE LETHAL? Jesus Christ...

I guess you never heard of Star Trek, and the Holodeck, dude. Is it cold under that rock?

See also: volumetric display.

Originally Posted by russ869

Shadi also used the Millennium Scales and the greedy museum director was devoured by a monster. Was that supposed to be a "monster from his own dark heart?" I don't remember. I can check my manga later...

Yeah, I think he said Ammit was the representation of his greed that resided in his Soul Room.

The Colosseum wasn't a card! That was just part of the Alcatraz duel arena. Kaiba wanted his 3rd rematch with Yuugi to parallel the epic battle of the Roman gladiators.

Yeah, I happened to not watch the beginning of that duel, and I only knew of the Colosseum display and the fact that there was a Colosseum card in the TCG. ^^;

See how it's definitely point to those spots as the "Solid Vision System." That's what's projecting the images.

That's an impressive scan! Thanks for showing this. :]

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Awesome scan, thank you. I remember that in my own volume copies. In regards to the Satellite System though, Kaiba says specifically that each Duel Disk is linked up with the Kaiba Corp satellite relay which beams down the solid vision data to each duel disk. I was mistaken in my remembering how it worked. It didn't project the actual solid vision, it projected the data. As in, the data for what card to display and what each monster looked like, and all.

Wait, but wasn't that data supposed to be in the IC chips? In regards to the Duel Disks, Kaiba mentions with the prototype during Duelist Kingdom that the graphical data is stored in the chips in the cards, which is read as the disk spins at a fast speed.

Here's the scan of that part.

EDIT: Unless... that was because the Duel Disk was just a prototype at the time, and it got changed for the newer models. The Satellite mechanism could be used to explain how cards without an IC chip can have their Solid Visions displayed, but it still begs to ask how a card is read in that case...

Anyways, I can't remember if it was in this thread or not that we discussed how the duel disks were able to manifest solid vision holograms that were real enough to have tangible force, or create water, and various other such things. And while I was rewatching YGO DM, specifically episode 89, I noticed something.

It was in this very thread, indeed.

When both Jou and Rishid got struck by lightning due to Rishid playing the counterfeit Ra, Honda tries to jump in the ring to help them, since they got struck by lightning, but Isono tells him to stop. Kaiba then says that "the duel disk 'Realism System' was not set to a fatal level, so its impossible for them to be in real danger, its just in their heads."

Now I totally forgot about that line. Apparently, Kaiba Corp's technology at the time, allowed for a realistic setting that allowed for the Solid Vision projections to be tangible to varying degrees, and even to a dangerous one.

This of course would tie into his Death-T Duel Box experiments where he tried to recreate the Penalty Game he suffered to the most realistic level as possible...

So yeah. There's your answer. Apparently yes. Kaiba Corp Solid Vision technology was capable of projecting holograms with tangible force and power, even to high levels. Even in the DM era.

Wow. That's impressive. So the realism of the Solid Vision can be manipulated? I guess that'd explain how Thor and Red Demons went poof in 5D's as well, they could have tuned down the Realism level and turned off the system.

And that totally explains why Pegasus needed Kaiba Corporation as well, and not just settle with the Solid Vision from the Duel Disk. It meant he could not only summon a realistic Cyndia card via Solid Vision, but also enjoy her presence on the highest realism setting available. Hrm.

Originally Posted by Arynis

Wait, but wasn't that data supposed to be in the IC chips? In regards to the Duel Disks, Kaiba mentions with the prototype during Duelist Kingdom that the graphical data is stored in the chips in the cards, which is read as the disk spins at a fast speed.

Here's the scan of that part.

That was back in Duelist Kingdom. During Battle City, all of the Card Data and Solid Vision data is consolidated at the Kaiba Corp mainframe which houses all of the data of Duel Monsters and sends it to every duel disk via the Kaiba Corporation satellites.

Wow. That's impressive. So the realism of the Solid Vision can be manipulated? I guess that'd explain how Thor and Red Demons went poof in 5D's as well, they could have tuned down the Realism level and turned off the system.

....If it's a real god card then no. You shouldn't be able to do that. A god card isn't something you can turn off. It's not a toy that can just be unplugged once it goes out of control. Hence them being dangerous.

Oh wait this is 5Ds. Derp. Nevermind.

And that totally explains why Pegasus needed Kaiba Corporation as well, and not just settle with the Solid Vision from the Duel Disk. It meant he could not only summon a realistic Cyndia card via Solid Vision, but also enjoy her presence on the highest realism setting available. Hrm.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

That was back in Duelist Kingdom. During Battle City, all of the Card Data and Solid Vision data is consolidated at the Kaiba Corp mainframe which houses all of the data of Duel Monsters and sends it to every duel disk via the Kaiba Corporation satellites.

Yeah, I thought of that a bit after I made my original post. (See my edit.) The entire system could have been rehauled during Duelist Kingdom and Battle City.

....If it's a real god card then no. You shouldn't be able to do that. A god card isn't something you can turn off. It's not a toy that can just be unplugged once it goes out of control. Hence them being dangerous.

Oh wait this is 5Ds. Derp. Nevermind.

But going by what Kaiba said, they could have had the realism system's levels tuned down so their effect on the environment wasn't too fatal, at least?

Originally Posted by Arynis

Yeah, I thought of that a bit after I made my original post. (See my edit.) The entire system could have been rehauled during Duelist Kingdom and Battle City.

Yeah, pretty much.

But going by what Kaiba said, they could have had the realism system's levels tuned down so their effect on the environment wasn't too fatal, at least?

That didn't stop the real Ra from raining down divine judgment and striking Jou and Rishid with lightning and nearly killing them though. So no, it wouldn't. Same goes for when Ra was gonna burn up Mai, and Jou.

The God cards aren't bound by whatever mechanism the card game system is channeled through. Those aren't solid vision holograms. Those are actual monsters.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

That didn't stop the real Ra from raining down divine judgment and striking Jou and Rishid with lightning and nearly killing them though. So no, it wouldn't. Same goes for when Ra was gonna burn up Mai, and Jou.

The God cards aren't bound by whatever mechanism the card game system is channeled through. Those aren't solid vision holograms. Those are actual monsters.

Aaah, I see.

Well then. Let's just blame Thor's crotch for the lack of their powers.

On the topic of satellites, I2 also had them, albeit during the Duelist Kingdom only and in the anime only. They don't really make sense, though -- Kaiba's computer displays it as "Industrial Illusion.Co 1995" which kinda contradicts the information we have on the timeline. Then again, the anime just gave the island a huge ass underground system where lots of trained monkeys suits check on info for all the time. a

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if in a horribly thought out and executed plot twist, the Polar Gods turn out to be fakes made by Lucianno for lulz, just to toy with stupid humans and make 5Ds have to work for their win. They don't look or feel like any real God card I know of, so yeah.

I would think Thor's crotch would be the nexus of their horrible power..driving non chosen duelists insane, inflicting mental and physical damage on opponents...the whole shebang. Its a horrible thing. Something that couldn't come from any mortal realm.

And yeah. The anime loves its odd additions.

The Kaiba Corporation Duel Server and Satellite system serves as a core element in the YGO R plot if you remember. It's thanks to that Duel Server that the Wicked Avatar was close to resurrecting Pegasus, and Yako was able to basically astrally project himself anywhere he could want.

Haha. But they went through the spacetime waves unharmed! Though, I'm surprised the Tenors made no comments on the Gods at all, they only jumped at Shooting Star/Scar-Red Nova getting summoned, as far as I know. Either way, no reaction towards the Gods. It's pretty funny.

That's it. These Gods don't punish non-Chosen Ones. They psychologically tea bag Mind **** whoever the Ragnarok members are off against. Be it Thor's crotch, Loki's moobs and... whatever Odin has up his sleeve robe.

And yep, pretty much. Though, I wonder if the resurrected Pegasus would have been more twisted and insane than his original self, due to the Avatar's influence... Also, Pegasus in Anzu's body. Do not want.

One part I didn't really understand in R was Yakou explaining about the data in the cards / the card being given a soul. It could be because I only read the fan translation, but yeah, I'm confused. Apart from the whole "I can use the souls from the cards to put Pegasus' soul together" part.

A duelist puts a piece of themselves into each card they use in their deck. So if you put all those fragments together, they can recreate the duelist who wielded them, and bring them back from death. Which is what they did with Keith and the Wicked Avatar.

Now, since Pegasus created every card in the game, Yako needed the data of every card in existence. Which is why he took over Kaiba Corporation and its Duel Ring server. So by doing that, and combining it with the Wicked Avatar, he was gonna bring back Pegasus and put him in Anzu's body.

The reason the Yliaster Emperors never said anything about the Polar Gods was because they made them. Yup.

And you hit the nail right on the head. But I don't really see moobs on Loki to be honest.

Aha, gotcha. I assume the Technobabble about Homogeneous and Heterogeneous data was about the mystical and technical aspects of the card contents, yes?

Fff. That would be a fun twist, honestly. XD

It depends on how you look at it. The shading on the card art makes it look moob-like.

....Huh? I'm not sure what you're talking about.

And if such a plot twist happen, I'd think this arc wouldn't be such a monumental waste of time.

This part. But that might have been different in the Viz manga, but I don't have access to that.

At least it would be worth for the team's reactions to Illiaster's "JUST AS PLANNED" plot. It would be quite a kick in the face for the Ragnarok folk too.

Oh wow...yeah. Viz's translation is a lot smoother and... coherent/relevant than that, thankfully. Yeah. They did that different.

And I'm all for kicks to the faces. XD

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

I guess you never heard of Star Trek, and the Holodeck, dude. Is it cold under that rock?

I'm not a Trekky, nor are most of my friends. Therefore, I know nothing about the show; nor do I want to.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

....If it's a real god card then no. You shouldn't be able to do that. A god card isn't something you can turn off. It's not a toy that can just be unplugged once it goes out of control. Hence them being dangerous.

Oh wait this is 5Ds. Derp. Nevermind.

5D's really has to stop f-ing up everything the other 2 shows accomplished (whatever that was with GX). Norse Gods? -EFF-, guys! Stop shoehorning in things that DO NOT BELONG.

Originally Posted by Arynis

Well then. Let's just blame Thor's crotch for the lack of their powers.

For -EFF- sakes Wall 5...

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if in a horribly thought out and executed plot twist, the Polar Gods turn out to be fakes made by Lucianno for lulz, just to toy with stupid humans and make 5Ds have to work for their win. They don't look or feel like any real God card I know of, so yeah.

Sadly, that makes perfect sense and is a likely idea to me...

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Oh wow...yeah. Viz's translation is a lot smoother and... coherent/relevant than that, thankfully. Yeah. They did that different.

Tell me about it... I downloaded a Fanlation of Chapter 5 where Jou said, "My luck won!" with about 5 exclamation marks.

And I'm all for kicks to the faces. XD

Then go find Yusei. He loves kicking people in the head. And Card Games on Motorcycles!

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

5D's really has to stop f-ing up everything the other 2 shows accomplished (whatever that was with GX). Norse Gods? -EFF-, guys! Stop shoehorning in things that DO NOT BELONG.

There's nothing wrong with adding more mythology into the series, really. The problem is more about the execution. Corporate Interests and all that.

For -EFF- sakes Wall 5...

If you mean Wall 5 Project, they do the music. Not their fault. XD (Go blame those sneaky card designers or something. They have a high mortality rate in the YGOverse, anyway.)

Tell me about it... I downloaded a Fanlation of Chapter 5 where Jou said, "My luck won!" with about 5 exclamation marks.

Haha, wow.

@ Mako: What was the line in question in the Viz manga, by the way? I'd love to have that data thing cleared up because it's been bugging me for years.

Originally Posted by Arynis

There's nothing wrong with adding more mythology into the series, really. The problem is more about the execution. Corporate Interests and all that.

Hence the shoehorning comment. It was far too out-of-nowhere.

If you mean Wall 5 Project, they do the music. Not their fault. XD (Go blame those sneaky card designers or something. They have a high mortality rate in the YGOverse, anyway.)

Good. They deserve to die for a 1000-foot-tall walking crotch shot.

@ Mako: What was the line in question in the Viz manga, by the way? I'd love to have that data thing cleared up because it's been bugging me for years.

Wait, what chapter was it?

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Good. They deserve to die for a 1000-foot-tall walking crotch shot.

I lol'd.

Wait, what chapter was it?

The beginning of Chapter 21, where Yakou is giving an infodump to Kaiba.

Originally Posted by Arynis

The beginning of Chapter 21, where Yakou is giving an infodump to Kaiba.

"In order to refine that soul, I am merging all the card data in the Duel Ring Server. The data will then be transferred into the body of the vessel, Anzu Mazaki." The concept still makes no sense, but at least the line is delivered in a reasonable way. That scan... needs to be melted into homogeneous goo.

Thanks, DarkDust!

Perhaps, but sometimes less-than-accurate translations is all we have. I know it from experience. XD; Granted, we have the Viz manga now. I think Cindy admitted on her site that her translations weren't too good, looking back at them, and they were in need of revision anyway.