Thread: The Mechanics and Mysticism of Cards and Duel Monsters

In the anime, he did abduct 3 people. That counts as several. Mokuba, Kaiba, and Grandpa. And PoL is an anime continuity series. BU

And I don't see things ending very well with KaibaCorp had his schemes fully played out. B|a Entire workers' livelihoods might of died in horrible crashing flames.

If I buy enough packs, can Aki be important again?

"No. Teenage boys are more interested in emulating Yusei, Jack, and Crow, rather than any of those other losers who form the main cast. Also, Red Dragon Archfiend, Quick Dandy Warrior and Blackwings are played. Morphtronics, Plants, and Reficule Burn aren't. BU"

Ffff. Seeing how Pegasus only needed the company for the technology, I suppose... To be fair, KC went through worse. Yakou took over the entire building with the Card Professors for an equally Beyond The Impossible plan, and during GX KC actually blew up. (Weren't the bombs placed in advance there, though? My memory is kind of shaky on that apart from Saiou and Judai dueling. :|a) And in 5D's, it blew up again thanks to the Zero Reverse.

Originally Posted by Arynis

Ffff. Seeing how Pegasus only needed the company for the technology, I suppose... To be fair, KC went through worse. Yakou took over the entire building with the Card Professors for an equally Beyond The Impossible plan, and during GX KC actually blew up. (Weren't the bombs placed in advance there, though? My memory is kind of shaky on that apart from Saiou and Judai dueling. a) And in 5D's, it blew up again thanks to the Zero Reverse.

As far as I can remember yes, Saiou planted the bombs there so Judai wouldn't high-tail it out of there (why he thought Judai would do that is beyond me). As for Zero Reverse... no, because in the OVA we see that the tall, thin building with red signs is the KC Building. It was just remodeled.

Ffff. Seeing how Pegasus only needed the company for the technology, I suppose...

Well, wasn't part of his master plan somewhat influenced by the fact the Big 5 wanted to take total corporate control from Kaiba? And from how the 2 Virtual world arcs went, uh. The Big 5 were kinda pretty much total jerks.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

As far as I can remember yes, Saiou planted the bombs there so Judai wouldn't high-tail it out of there (why he thought Judai would do that is beyond me). As for Zero Reverse... no, because in the OVA we see that the tall, thin building with red signs is the KC Building. It was just remodeled.

Ah, I see.

Eh, I always assumed the building with the Momentum was also KC's building. And post Zero Reverse, it was moved to Neo Domino City and rebuilt. So building with the Momentum =/= KC, then?

Originally Posted by LeArk

Well, wasn't part of his master plan somewhat influenced by the fact the Big 5 wanted to take total corporate control from Kaiba? And from how the 2 Virtual world arcs went, uh. The Big 5 were kinda pretty much total jerks.

Oh, right. I keep forgetting about the Virutal World arc. :x

It kinda reminded me of Gendo and SEELE's relationship from Evangelion. The Big 5 wanted to take over KC for their own goals, while Pegasus worked with them but wanted to use said goal for something entirely different.

Originally Posted by Arynis

Ah, I see.

Eh, I always assumed the building with the Momentum was also KC's building. And post Zero Reverse, it was moved to Neo Domino City and rebuilt. So building with the Momentum =/= KC, then?

It has a slightly different shape than the actual KC Building. See:





Note the different in taper, as well as the fact that the KC Building does not have a spire on it.

LeArk, I really am curious. You seem to know a great deal about what the storyline of these monsters are. What's the story about them? Like...the Six Samurai or Duel Terminal monsters? Do the Duel Terminal monsters live in the Duel Monster spirit realm or something?

I'm just curious as to what this storyline is for them, in terms of the cards. Since I know of some of them but alas none of that info ever makes it to us. It never seems to make it to the anime either. Wasn't there some story behind the Crystal Beasts too?

The Duel Terminal Monsters are on "A certain planet", apparently DT09 and DT10 being the aftermath of DT01~08's madness it looks.

I believe in show the Crystal Beasts were made from a treasury of Caeser that sank into the ocean. I might be wrong.

They do exist, it's just stuck in R&D and the Master Guides for the main cards. Though the Duel Terminal seems to be fixing this for its series.
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Duel Terminal 1 to 8
http://forum.janime.eu/threads/34518...rminal-s-Story
Duel Terminal 9 to 10
http://forum.janime.eu/threads/45478...=1#post2450848
http://forum.janime.eu/threads/45478...=1#post2450866
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Jerome McHale

So, the KM are genetically engineered creatures designed by mankind in collaboration with Kozaky, a scientist who had fled the Dark World and sought sanctuary in the plane of existence where mankind is assumed to exist. He works with Magical Scientist and The Other in a lab, part of which is seen in the KM Field Spell. One day a shooting star landed nearby, causing a massive crater to form. At the center of the impact was the Iron Core of Koa'ki Meiru, an alien relic that immediately began to convert the surrounding area into a defensive shrine as seen in Core Reinforcement. Realizing that something that can generate that sort of structure out of the base materials in the earth in such a short timespan must have incredible power, they bashed up the shrine and took the Core back to their lab and started using it to genetically engineer war machines to help mankind survive in the impending war between the Dark World and the Realm of Light.

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MASTER GUIDE 2
= Pikeru & Curran are twin sisters. Curran is the Elder, Pikeru is the Younger.
= Giant Kozaky has an Aircraft Identification Number.
= Alien Mother's cells, I think, are within other Aliens.
= Gagagigo asked for his cybernetic upgrade from Kozaky after he saw the success of Woodborg Inpachi preformed by the aforementioned mad scientist.
= Kozaky is a former lingual expert banished/fired from the linguistics society he worked for due to having a mental breakdown. Afterwards, he moved into the research of Science, not Linguistics. He and Magical Scientist work as researchers together.
= Inpachi was remodeled into Woodborg Inpachi by Kozaky after the events in "Double Attack".
= Warrior Lady of the Wasteland is the same person as D.D. Warrior Lady (Obv.)
= "The Paths of Destiny" leads to either Dai Grepher becoming the form he has in "Falling Down" or "Ryu Senshi".
= Ryu Senshi is the result of Warrior Dai Grepher gaining the power of Spirit Ryu, and thus his good and just destiny.
= The events dealing with "Dimensional Inversion" goes something like: Warrior Dai Grepher attacked a certain Female Monster, and he was banished to the Different Dimension as a result. He came back despite being banished to the Different Dimension. He came back using the device on his left arm, which was a magical device created by a Wizard ally of his. These notes I have (Japanese YGO Wiki) question if the Wizard is related to the Different Dimension. In addition, they wonder if the glove is armor or an artificial arm given to him due to the events with the female monster that might of deprived him of his arm.
= Scarr, Scout of Dark World & Broww, Huntsman of Dark World are a tag team who work together, if somewhat unevenly and probably don't entirely get alone.
= Goldd is a god of war who reigns above "Brron, Mad King of Dark World" in terms of Status. However, his partner, Sillva, holds the top rank in the Dark World Army over even Goldd.
= Reign-Beaux holds essentially the position of the Ruling God of Dark World, in that, I believe, he has both political and religious authority.
= Otherworld - The A Zone is the breeding ground of Cosmic Horror Gangi'el. Flying Saucer Muusik'i transports it to planets the Aliens wish to invade and conquer.
= "Cosmic Horror Gangi'el" is the result of the Alien's research into the A Cell. The A Zone is its breeding ground where the Aliens raise the Gangi'el. And yes there are multiples of them (Mysterious Trangle).
= Muusik'i is the base which Aliens do their world conquest shtick.
= Pot of Greed, if you pull your hand out of it, it explodes immediately.
= Fatal Abacus is a device created by Kozaky.
= Legendary Ebon Steed is a horse given to those Great Shogun Shien favors.
= Warrior Dai Grepher was born a commoner. He has considerable belief of his own powers.
= Falling Down is the Bad Destiny of Warrior Dai Grepher. He robbed a demon (Guardian Baou) of its Sword (Wicked-Breaking Flamberge - Baou), but didn't realize the demon's real body was actually the sword it held. Due to this he was slowly corrupted and fell into darkness, and became the very thing he despised.
= Great Shogun Shien was a man living in a land consumed by war and chaos. With the aid of his vassals and the six retainers, The Six Samurai, he brought peace and security to his land, a la the Tokugawa Shogunate, give or take.
= Tenkabito Shien is Great Shogun Shien without all his armor on top of him.
= Spell Economics: The Pen is one controlled by the mind of its owner allowing it to write automatically, while the book is a notebook with an endless number of pages.
= Grandmaster of the Six Samurai has served Great Shogun Shien since the Shogun's infancy. After his lord grew up, he became the one to lead the Six Samurai.
= Avatar of the Pot is something the pot turns into.
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= The Dark World race are a group who despite their horrifying appearance, are truly gentle in reality.
= The Gladiator Beasts were fighters who over time were liberated from the Colosseum. The Gladiator Beasts were originally enemies but due to their circumstances they swore to work together.
= Dark Lucius is the same person as Warrior Dai Grepher. Basically, uh. Warrior Dai Grepher had turned into a monster who chased after women.
= The Six Samurai are a group steadfast in justice and carry feelings of eternal loyalty to their Lord, Great Shogun Shien. Each of the six as well, has their own private squad that works under them.

MASTER GUIDE
= Stumbling depicts Gagagigo in despair, after a Certain girl he had feelings for rejected him. It also shows him trying to obtain power and falling down in despair at the fact he cannot get stronger.
= Exiled Force admire Marauding Captain and Freed the Matchless General.
= Gagagigo's story is essentially one of a youth who took to fighting to get over the shock of heartbreak from being rejected by the one girl he loved, but he still enjoys his rough and tumble youth. He knew Freed the Matchless General, and they were friendly rivals, with 24 wins to Gagagigo's name and 26 to Freed's. After he searched for and obtained strength, he fought the general again as Giga Gagagigo.
= Legacy Hunter is Don Zaloog in his youth.
= Invader from Another Dimension is a D.D./Different Dimension Card.
= D.D. Warrior is in love with D.D. Warrior Lady but she doesn't love him back and sees him only as a fiend. Incidentally, Different Dimension Dragon is his pet. And D.D. Scout Plane is essentially his transport vehicle.
= D.D. Trainer is D.D. Warrior Lady's type, not D.D. Warrior.
= Gorg the Strong has a thing for Meanae the Thorn, but due to his shy and stone-faced personality, he doesn't express his feelings to her.
= The current believed sequence for the life of Goblin of Greed is...
Upstart Goblin, Dark Scorpion Combination, Pollinosis, Bubble Crash, Heavy Slump, Second Chance, Jar Robber, Goblin Thief, Goblin of Greed, Fine, Dark Factory of Mass Production, Good Goblin Houskeeping, Goblin Out of the Frying Pan.
= Freed the Brave Wanderer is Freed as a Knight Errant, and it seems he met Gagagigo as a rival at this point of time in his life. (D.D. Borderline and Dimensional Prison)
= Freed the Matchless General is the superior of Marauding Captain. I
= The Dark Scorpions used to rob Goblin of Greed back when he was rich.

What happened on the Duel Terminal monsters after the Allies of Justice beat the Worms? What was...the Aftermath? What the hell does Trishula have to do with anything?

And does the Duel Terminal planet mean, the Duel Terminal monsters are aliens compared to the rest of them?

I knew about those others, but.... Kozaky was a linguistic expert? How...strange.

There was something interesting about the Lightsworns too, wasn't there? Like, what's their deal?

@ DarkDust: But I thought the KC building had a red sign on top in 5D's (which you spoke of)? It would be logical to have the Momentum in KC as well, considering it was developed by the MIDS branch. Unless, again, different buildings.

I never really paid that much attention to the card lore due to not playing the TCG anymore, but these sound really cool. I have only read Gagagigo's story on the Wikia (is that all true, or only a segment of it?) which I liked a lot... although the idea of the cards having stories tied to them is really neat, it puts more into them than just "derp card game, go play it". I should check these stories out sometime!

Duel Terminal 01 and 02 don't have a story from what I can tell.

Duel Terminal 03 - Justice Strikes Back
Incapable of dealing with the Invaders known as the "Worms" on their own (due to the sheer brutality of the Worms), the tribes of the Duel Terminal were pressed into a corner despite their strength. The tribes stood up together to break this pattern by forming the Group "Ally of Justice" that would exceed them all. Each of the antagonized tribes shared their various technologies with one another and developed the weapons to fight back against the Worms. Thus the robots who fight in the name of justice, the "Ally of Justice", were created.

Duel Terminal 04 doesn't seem to have a story..

Duel Terminal 05 - Ruler of Chaos
Along with the Worms, invaders from outer space, a sealed pantheon of gods was revived, the Fabled. As a result the enter planet was plunged into chaos. Alliances were betrayed and it looked as if a final battle was approaching. And thus all cried out for a Champion to be born.

Duel Terminal 06 - Whirlwind of Dragunity
The entire planet was covered in solemn dark clouds. The natives of the Duel Terminal World and the Worms fight had reached the breaking point and was in its last stage. A gale rolling with lightning occurred at this time, and the legendary Dragon Soldiers known as the Dragunity arrived.

Duel Terminal 07 - Genex's Onslaught
The natives of the planet has finally won victory and peace. However, mysterious incidents occurred frequently across the world. The Fabled had unleashed their Fabled Beasts to begin the conquest of the planet. At the same time, the AOJ and the Genex cooperated and advanced their development for a new fighting potential. As a result, they adjusted to the new situation, and a system to fight this new threat, the Genex Ally, was created.

Duel Terminal 08 - Pulse of Trishula
By the flood of various powers, the entire planet was brought into ruin and destruction. Fights gave birth to fight. Fights were repeated over and over (with their own alliances?). The Ice Barrier tribe, realizing the state of confusion, who had released Brionac and Gungnir in previous madness, decided to break the last seal. The oldest and strongest dragon, Trishula, will now awaken.

Duel Terminal 09 - Vylon Descendsn
On the continent of a certain planet...
There are races currently fighting each other for control.
One is the "Laval". Burning up the land around them like flames, they are a violent, raging tribe.
The other is the "Gems", beautiful like the crystals in the ever-spinning Earth, they are a clan that respects Honor
Though the "Gems" are against the idea fighting, against the provocative and unplanned attacks of the "Laval", they boast that they could outlast and repel such assaults.
Between the two of them, a small scale war occurred.
Suddenly, amidst a certain battle, the legendary gods known as the "Vylon" descended from the heavens.
No longer capable of standing the unending war on the material world below, they decided to intervene in the battle.
The record of a new battle is now carved into the Duel Terminal."

Duel Terminal 10 - Raid of the Inverz
In a certain region.
The Gusta lived with primordial beasts, living with the winds, defended the wetlands of Mist Valley. As well, the "Richua" Tribe who preformed ghastly rituals with their wicked Ritual Water Mirror had become a threat to them. Due to the infighting between the Gusta and the Richua, a new threat suddenly appeared. The ones who had been watching their fights from impenetrable shadows appeared on the surface. The ones from the ancient times of the world, those sealed in the darkness itself, the Inverz, had begun to invade again.

Originally Posted by LeArk

The Duel Terminal Monsters are on "A certain planet", apparently DT09 and DT10 being the aftermath of DT01~08's madness it looks.

I believe in show the Crystal Beasts were made from a treasury of Caeser that sank into the ocean. I might be wrong.

They do exist, it's just stuck in R&D and the Master Guides for the main cards. Though the Duel Terminal seems to be fixing this for its series.
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= Alien Mother's cells, I think, are within other Aliens.

God damnit, it's Jenova!

= Goldd is a god of war who reigns above "Brron, Mad King of Dark World" in terms of Status. However, his partner, Sillva, holds the top rank in the Dark World Army over even Goldd.

That makes so sense whatsoever. Sillva is a War God, Goldd is a God of Military Arts. Those ranks should be equal.

= Reign-Beaux holds essentially the position of the Ruling God of Dark World, in that, I believe, he has both political and religious authority.

Dark Worlders worship the Devil? Then why were there no satanic symbols in Dark World in GX?

= Pot of Greed, if you pull your hand out of it, it explodes immediately.

Karma at its best.

= Spell Economics: The Pen is one controlled by the mind of its owner allowing it to write automatically, while the book is a notebook with an endless number of pages.

From nopw on, I'm carrying this card around and thinking of the name of my opponent to see what happens.

= The Dark World race are a group who despite their horrifying appearance, are truly gentle in reality.

Do not judge the book by its mother-f-ing cover.

= Dark Lucius is the same person as Warrior Dai Grepher. Basically, uh. Warrior Dai Grepher had turned into a monster who chased after women.

And then he failed top kill Dumbledore, and was left to chase after Allure Queen.

= Legacy Hunter is Don Zaloog in his youth.

I'd say he found a legacy.

Originally Posted by Arynis

@ DarkDust: But I thought the KC building had a red sign on top in 5D's (which you spoke of)? It would be logical to have the Momentum in KC as well, considering it was developed by the MIDS branch. Unless, again, different buildings.

I couldn't find a picture on the wiki of the red sign; but yes, it does. The point was that the building shown did not match the KC Building; and, as you pointed out, it doesn't match the new one either.

Yeah, news lores! Thanks a lot LeArk!

I'm surprised for Kozaki. I never think he had been scientist.

Originally Posted by LeArk

The Gladiator Beasts were fighters who over time were liberated from the Colosseum. The Gladiator Beasts were originally enemies but due to their circumstances they swore to work together.

And they works pretty good!

What happened to the Fabled and AOJ? What did Trishula?

LeArk, you are seriously my hero. These facts are just invaluable and awesome. Thank you so much for this.

I think...Trishula woke up and blew everything up. Trishula was the final great equalizer that scared both sides into peace...

But man. All this info on the monsters is just...astounding. It brings a whole new level of enjoyment and collectability to the card game. Thank you, sir.

Originally Posted by LeArk

Duel Terminal -snip-

Goddamit, I'd rep you if I could. This is pretty much exacltly what I've been waiting for.

Wonder who rejected Gigo. Eria, maybe?

Go to the Japanese wiki and use this if you wish to check on your own: マスターガイド

Also, yeah, I think things like that makes people think Trishula was a "Rocks Fall, everyone dies" thing, but it seems to be fanon at this point. Either it nuked, or it was Gort. That's how I look at it.

The Koa'ki Meiru thing is from Pojo, but Jerome McHale is one of the English R&D team.
================================================== ==============
Ally of Justice:
Incapable of dealing with the Invaders known as the "Worms" on their own (due to the sheer brutality of the Worms), the tribes of the Duel Terminal were pressed into a corner despite their strength. The tribes stood up together to break this pattern by forming the Group "Ally of Justice" that would exceed them all. Each of the antagonized tribes shared their various technologies with one another and developed the weapons to fight back against the Worms. Thus the robots who fight in the name of justice, the "Ally of Justice", were created.

Inverz:
In ancient times, these beings lost to the Vylon for the control of the World. As a result, the Inverz were sealed into an abyss under the Earth. However, a certain battle's chaos on the surface caused these vile monsters to be released from their sealed prison. Craving revenge, they have been waiting for the time they could continue, these Supreme Predators have been storing their energy and laying in wait, readying to consume the Vylon. Their fangs and claws have first been turned to the Mist Valley wetlands...

Gusta:
The Mist Valley Wetlands. A vast wetland located between Mist Valley and the Ice Barrier. The family who lives here, The Gusta, believes this place has been blessed with fertile land since ancient times. This tribe has worked with the ancient creatures that live here to fight against the various enemies that have attempted to wipe them out. However, at the present, the chaotic conflict on the surface has occurred, and since those conflicts... does anyone remember voices coming from the ground before?

Genex:
They serve as the power source for huge weapons (Ally of Justice). However, they were also designed to fight against the invading Worms.

Gem-Knight:
The Gem-Knight are considered to be peaceful and wiser than the Laval who are singularly focused on fighting. However, they are incapable of preforming the instant blitzkriegs of their opponents. However, to protect one another's brilliant shine, they have resisted one Laval assault after another. Finally sick of the fires launched against them, they decided to fight back, knowing how much it was hurting the mind and body.

Jurrac:
Nothing available.

X-Saber:
Commander Gottoms, Swordmaster and the 9 other X-Sabers are the "10 Warriors". No explanation for the XX-Saber is given.

Dragunity:
They are a group of legendary Dragon soldiers who suddenly appeared from Mist Valley.

Naturia:
Nothing available.

Ice Barrier:
They're a tribe with the duty of protecting the Ice Barrier where Brionac, Gungnir, and Trishula are sealed.

Vylon:
Vylon, beings who are considered equal to the Gods by those on the surface. In truth, they are Stargazers, but they are worried about the future of the world below, due to its constant strife. They complain "Why do these races continue to fight over such minor and trivial issues?" "Why do they refuse to work together, and instead compete for limited life and resources?" They seek the answers to these questions in their hearts, and thus descend to the Earth below to make a stand.

Flamvell:
No information.

Fabled:
They were awakened by the invasion of the worms. After the defeat of the worms, they released their pets (The Fabled) upon the world to attempt world domination.

Mist Valley:
Nothing available.

Laval:
Lavals are a tribe from the Enjuukai (Burning Sea of Trees) who spread out across the volcanic regions. They are a race who are bred to fight, who keep inventing new reasons to pick a fight with whoever they find, causing them to enter into an endless fight with their neighbors, the Gem-Knights. The fires in their eyes reflect all the fights they've fought before, but the fire there does not reflect the future ahead of them.

Richua:
Believing in justice, the "Ice Barrier" who longed for peace and had sealed away the original superpower, while a powerful homogeneous group, a certain group of their tribe had instead turned to the ancient wicked ceremonies and rituals of the "Evirichua" that were thought to have been lost knowledge, by using the "Suikagami" (Water Mirror). Thus they called themselves the Richua. Originally, they were small and powerless, so they looked to the Mist Valley wetlands for its abundant resources, and began to invade the land of the Gusta.

Worms:
They're alien invaders. They first attacked the X-Sabers and the Mist Valley it sounds.

I really love how is there a thematic/storyline reason for the Koa'Ki Meiru monsters to have such hatred for Light and Dark. It all makes sense. Thank you so much.

Oh! LeArk! I have a question. In the YGO Online description of the "Phantom Darkness" Booster Pack, it states Yubel and her corruption, was the creator of all the DARK counterparts. Is that corroborated by anything else?

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

I think...Trishula woke up and blew everything up. Trishula was the final great equalizer that scared both sides into peace...

Then ishe betrayed her own tribe by sleeping with everyone, so they had to use a mirror like she was f-ing Meduca to fight her off.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Oh! LeArk! I have a question. In the YGO Online description of the "Phantom Darkness" Booster Pack, it states Yubel and her corruption, was the creator of all the DARK counterparts. Is that corroborated by anything else?

By the anime, my dear friend. She corrupted everyone affiliated with her in Season 3, including their Decks. Rainbow Dark Dragon, keep in mind, was the first official Dark Counterpart of the lot, and it premiered with Yubel-possesed Johan and his A-Gem Beasts (which are in themselves evil versions of Gem Beasts).

Well I know that in terms of the anime, but the other monsters never appear in the anime at all. So I was wondering if that was in a Master Guide or something, or just them making an educated guess.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Well I know that in terms of the anime, but the other monsters never appear in the anime at all. So I was wondering if that was in a Master Guide or something, or just them making an educated guess.

Dude, it's all just a thrown-together story anyway, just for people who are amused by that sort of thing. Good as it is, it's nothing more than that.

Oh, and Arynis; methinks the Topic needs renaming, as it has changed topic completely.

There's still the first half of the topic, though. Perhaps "The Mechanics, Mysticism and Story of Cards and Duel Monsters" --if it's not too long-- then? Besides, when we get to the core of the current 5D's season we'd likely be back to discussing the main topic at hand, considering that they'd have to get to Zone's story eventually. Ditto Paradox and his future. Although I suppose we covered most of the issues of the main topic, didn't we? Unless Darkness' whole "Duel Monsters = Origin of the World" viewpoint counts, but I'm still convinced that's just a metaphor.

Also, I don't think I can rename the topic. Only a mod (or an admin?) can.

On the topic of card creation, I think Pegasus' creating the Rainbow Dragon should deserve a mention. It was special because Pegasus made the card image right there, which was possibly converted into image data to be scanned onto the IC chips by Zweinstein and his crew. But regarding the mystical data... Pegasus didn't have the Eye at this point anymore, so no "he used the Eye's magic to lift the data into the IC chips" thing. Yet the Rainbow Dragon was right there with all its powers. Probably justified by the fact that Pegasus was the Chosen One and that he had the Eye, but still. Hrm.

Also, I thought most people there were I2 employees only, since most helicopters had the I2 design on them. So when did I2 gain access to the image data scanning, which was supposedly only KC's job? Unless they borrowed the technology temporarily or something. Or considering that Zweistein was involved, it could have been an entirely new card creation technology.

There's really no need for a name change at all. This still all ties to the origins, history, and backstory to the cards.

The story hardly seems thrown together, seeing as how the artwork itself seems to consistently outline a sort of allegorical tale regarding what these monsters are and what they do. I like that. It makes them appear as just random pieces of paper with crap on it. If they're designed with a specific in mind, that's not random or thrown together.

Originally Posted by Arynis

On the topic of card creation, I think Pegasus' creating the Rainbow Dragon should deserve a mention. It was special because Pegasus made the card image right there, which was possibly converted into image data to be scanned onto the IC chips by Zweinstein and his crew. But regarding the mystical data... Pegasus didn't have the Eye at this point anymore, so no "he used the Eye's magic to lift the data into the IC chips" thing. Yet the Rainbow Dragon was right there with all its powers. Probably justified by the fact that Pegasus was the Chosen One and that he had the Eye, but still. Hrm.

See why all this "all cards have a spirit" crap just beats the plot in the face with a shoe, repeatedly?

The only way you can make sense out of it is through the justification that Rainbow Dragon already existed mythologically (since there was that huge lithograph of it) and the power of that lithograph acted as bridge between its actual spiritual form, and its card. Which then explains why everyone there was so adamant at protecting that lithograph when Echo tried to blow it up with her....card bombs.


And regarding those chips, I think you're placing a bit too much emphasis on them, in terms of justifying how the cards manifest their power. Although the novelization speaks of their existence, we're not told anything of it in the anime or original manga.

Oh! LeArk! I have a question. In the YGO Online description of the "Phantom Darkness" Booster Pack, it states Yubel and her corruption, was the creator of all the DARK counterparts. Is that corroborated by anything else?

Dude, if Konami says it in their own game, it's canon, brah.

Also, I always figured protecting the lithograph was without it, Rainbow Dragon would be made all "********" and not what the actual original mythical intent was. But haven't seen GX in LONG time.

LOL well fair enough. I just wanted to be sure after all. XD

I think that's cool, I always wondered why there were all these...evil counterparts to various famous monsters.

You know, if you think about it, it's as if Yubel and Paradox have a certain trait in common...

That's really awesome information. I never knew any of the supposed "storlyines" detailed in card art had anything but fan speculation to back them up. Its a shame they never released the Master Guides in English.

Never expected that Gagagagio requested his "upgrade".

The Dark World monsters actually being gentle is backed up Zure's flavor text. So I always found it odd that they were evil in GX. But with Yubel's presence, that actually makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by Arynis

Unless Darkness' whole "Duel Monsters = Origin of the World" viewpoint counts, but I'm still convinced that's just a metaphor.

It damn well better have been a metaphor. I never realized there was any actual question about that.

And LeArk, has added even more awesome info. Wow. Just...wow. I can't believe some of this info. I didn't think the Dark Worlds were nice...

...Or that D.D. Warrior Lady has a thing for...*shudders* D.D. Trainer. But I guess..it's whats inside that counts, and all that. I honestly shipped D.D. Warrior Lady with D.D. Warrior. I'm...kinda sad. I would at least hope she'd go with D.D. Assailant for some hot yuri action, or D.D. Survivor. But nooooooo...

...Now something just hit me. If the Lightsworns...and Dark World monsters are fighting...does that make Lightsworns evil? Does anything say what their deal is, and why they're fighting the Dark World monsters?

...I really hope they're not evil, but then again, it'd be a hilarious bit of irony.

Well, Jerome had planned to answer questions about the Lightsworn, and the entire topic got trolled by some ******* furry who hates how the game was and started blaming it all on Jerome and poor design choices by Konami, and Jerome went "Topic over, I'm going back to doing what I always do: making Yu-Gi-Oh! better" just before he was going to answer that.

Originally Posted by cheesedude

That's really awesome information. I never knew any of the supposed "storlyines" detailed in card art had anything but fan speculation to back them up. Its a shame they never released the Master Guides in English.

Never expected that Gagagagio requested his "upgrade".

The Dark World monsters actually being gentle is backed up Zure's flavor text. So I always found it odd that they were evil in GX. But with Yubel's presence, that actually makes perfect sense.


It damn well better have been a metaphor. I never realized there was any actual question about that.

Well, in the WC08 game, you rescue Gigobyte from Curse of Vampire in the first stage and then see him again in the third stage where he requests an upgrade from Kozaky and goes apeshit all over the place. lol You see him one more time in the fourth stage, but nothing is said because he's brainwashed by the aliens. =/

LOL @ Dark World being gentle and Lightlords possibly being evil. That's funny stuff right there.

Originally Posted by LeArk

...and the entire topic got trolled by some ******* furry who hates how the game was...

I think I know who you're talking about. o__o

Yeah, I do too. He really is annoying.

And that's great. I guess we won't know about those Lightsworns or anything for awhile. *Sigh* I was looking forward to it. Great how some jackhole can screw things up for everyone else.

Originally Posted by LeArk

Well, Jerome had planned to answer questions about the Lightsworn, and the entire topic got trolled by some ******* furry who hates how the game was and started blaming it all on Jerome and poor design choices by Konami, and Jerome went "Topic over, I'm going back to doing what I always do: making Yu-Gi-Oh! better" just before he was going to answer that.

That pretty much descirbes about a third of the YGO sommunity on Pojo...

It was something like "BlueKistune" or something. And we'll know, probably, Mako. Just probably when Master Guide 03 is printed. Which will probably be when 5D's ends or something close. :\

Also, I wonder if the Doma Monster verse was based possibly the "Non-Show" monster stories (Dark Scorpions, Freed, etc.). I wouldn't mind it so much then, but it's still somewhat of a jarring "What the hell is this" thorn in the manga's fairly airtight story.

Ah, okay. I have a little better grasp on what probably happened now. lol

World Championship 2008 has some similarities to these stories, and the GX anime had a few too, but none of them were perfect representations of the actual stories. DOMA's spirit world just seemed to be monsters, but the Dark World reveal...

Speaking of GX and cards, I'm reminded of another curiousity.

Takuma Saiou's Arcana Force monsters.

We know that the Light of Destruction had aliens that represented/worshipped the Light of Destruction, and even Judai dueled one in Neo Space.

Now...look at Saiou's monsters. They're all light fairies that represent the Arcana. But...they're aliens. Strange, freaky aliens. Is there a story behind these aliens? Are they emissaries or embodiments of the Light of Destruction? I'm just curious to what the story is behind them XD

Well several of the Arcana Force have parts resembling the Alien of Light which dueled Juudai. And they are used by a man who is essentially the Avatar of the Light of Destruction on Earth. So take that as you will. B|

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

See why all this "all cards have a spirit" crap just beats the plot in the face with a shoe, repeatedly?

The only way you can make sense out of it is through the justification that Rainbow Dragon already existed mythologically (since there was that huge lithograph of it) and the power of that lithograph acted as bridge between its actual spiritual form, and its card. Which then explains why everyone there was so adamant at protecting that lithograph when Echo tried to blow it up with her....card bombs.

Hmm, yeah, that could make sense. Perhaps Rainbow Dragon wasn't a "normal" card, which are normally based on tablets that may or may not have vanished eventually. Perhaps Rainbow Dragon's card was made with the lithograph's existence in mind, with the card being a mere link between reality and the lithograph.

Also, I just thought of how the Egyptian Gods and Rainbow Dragon are the ones who have their tablets for certain... they are also the ones demonstrating power going beyond ink and paper. Hmm... Then again, that could be because both are Gods -- Rainbow Dragon's title is Ultimate Gem God, after all.

And regarding those chips, I think you're placing a bit too much emphasis on them, in terms of justifying how the cards manifest their power. Although the novelization speaks of their existence, we're not told anything of it in the anime or original manga.

Horoko said the IC chips were also mentioned in the novelization of the Death-T arc.

It's the only lead we have regarding the cards' technical side. I remember when I was thinking about what happens when a card is inserted into the Duel Disk and what steps occur before the monster is manifested on the field. Knowing of the IC chips makes it a lot easier to work with that. I don't know, it's just better to stick to the IC chips than grasp at nothing. XD;

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

You know, if you think about it, it's as if Yubel and Paradox have a certain trait in common...

...That would explain all those Sin Yubel fanarts.

Originally Posted by cheesedude

It damn well better have been a metaphor. I never realized there was any actual question about that.

I was just wondering what people think of it in regards to the topic, albeit the question was already discussed in this thread, for reference. Heh heh, and the title is punny in ways more than one... (Especially with all those "Darkness' vision = Paradox's future" theories around. GX made us a Paradox, indeed.)

Originally Posted by Arynis

There's still the first half of the topic, though. Perhaps "The Mechanics, Mysticism and Story of Cards and Duel Monsters" --if it's not too long-- then?

That sounds more complete, yes.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

There's really no need for a name change at all. This still all ties to the origins, history, and backstory to the cards.

...Except the topic title references things from the anime; these are stories from the master guide, actual official Yugioh published work.

Which then explains why everyone there was so adamant at protecting that lithograph when Echo tried to blow it up with her....card bombs.

Echo the Dead Terrorist?

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Speaking of GX and cards, I'm reminded of another curiousity.

Takuma Saiou's Arcana Force monsters.

We know that the Light of Destruction had aliens that represented/worshipped the Light of Destruction, and even Judai dueled one in Neo Space.

Now...look at Saiou's monsters. They're all light fairies that represent the Arcana. But...they're aliens. Strange, freaky aliens. Is there a story behind these aliens? Are they emissaries or embodiments of the Light of Destruction? I'm just curious to what the story is behind them XD

They're based off Tarot Cards and the Cthulhu archetype. They need no story.

Originally Posted by Arynis

Also, I just thought of how the Egyptian Gods and Rainbow Dragon are the ones who have their tablets for certain... they are also the ones demonstrating power going beyond ink and paper. Hmm... Then again, that could be because both are Gods -- Rainbow Dragon's title is Ultimate Rainbow Gem God, after all.

"Hougyoku" means Gem, Gemstone or Jewel. Rainbow is "Niji".

...That would explain all those Sin Yubel fanarts.

Yes, yes it would.

I was just wondering what people think of it in regards to the topic, albeit the question was already discussed in this thread, for reference. Heh heh, and the title is punny in ways more than one... (Especially with all those "Darkness' vision = Paradox's future" theories around. GX made us a Paradox, indeed.)

Have you not had enough bad puns today yet?

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

"Hougyoku" means Gem, Gemstone or Jewel. Rainbow is "Niji".

My memory was off then, oops. Yeah, Gem God.

Have you not had enough bad puns today yet?

Hey, I live off those puns!

And it's not my fault the movie turned dozens of things into Hilarious In Hindsight. I even saw a Pegasus fanart titled "My paradox senses are tingling" which was clearly made way before the movie. They should have been tingling, Pegasus... They should have...

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Speaking of GX and cards, I'm reminded of another curiousity.

Takuma Saiou's Arcana Force monsters.

We know that the Light of Destruction had aliens that represented/worshipped the Light of Destruction, and even Judai dueled one in Neo Space.

Now...look at Saiou's monsters. They're all light fairies that represent the Arcana. But...they're aliens. Strange, freaky aliens. Is there a story behind these aliens? Are they emissaries or embodiments of the Light of Destruction? I'm just curious to what the story is behind them XD

I'd say it's just a case of the character's deck being a reflection of himself. I wouldn't go too far into that one. lol

Originally Posted by Arynis

Hey, I live off those puns!

And it's not my fault the movie turned dozens of things into Hilarious In Hindsight. I even saw a Pegasus fanart titled "My paradox senses are tingling" which was clearly made way before the movie. They should have been tingling, Pegasus... They should have...

Funny as that is, and as your puns are, if this keeps up we'll burn the whole idea to the ground.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Funny as that is, and as your puns are, if this keeps up we'll burn the whole idea to the ground.

Burn all you want, still not my fault! ... On a second thought, can't you just settle for a Collective Groan?

I remembered, how during the Yusei/Sherry duel, the duel got called off because Aki inserted Stardust Dragon on the Duel Disk to save Sherry from the van. So the Duel Disks check whether a Monster is summoned properly during a duel? I mean, people used to summon monsters outside duels with no lock or penalty of the sort, so I assume the call off function triggers during duels only to prevent cheating.

Which leads me to another interesting point -- the whole D-Wheel shutdown during a duel loss. It's essentially a double edged sword. The Security could use it to catch people who use D-Wheels to escape themselves, or try to get away by using monsters, so Security can lock them into a duel instead, making them unable to distract them with summoned monsters for whatever reason, since cheating would shut down their D-Wheel instead. Of course, there's a chance that the Security dueling would still lose and the person they chased would get away. The downside is that the D-Wheel shutting down can very easily lead to accidents, as we had seen with Jack or Hidden Knight - Hook's lock (although Hook was more about literally locking down everything in the D-Wheel other than just shutting it down).

I was going to link Hook's lockdown ability to Aki not being able to activate her Psychic Powers, but then I remembered the Solid Vision did appear, ready to catch Aki, which means Hook didn't lock the D-Wheel's Duel Disk, only the actual vehicle. Argh.

Regarding Psychic Powers, the normal Solid Vision monster does have its limitations, doesn't it? I recall someone mentioning that the Duel Disk had built in features which make monsters more realistic (I think this was brought up when Kaiba had Jonouchi duel him with the Duel Disk prototype), and that Direct Attacks are merely simulated (i.e. they knock the opponent down but not actually harm them, unless the card is "real"). However, Solid Vision is supposed to be Hard Light, which would mean it could be able to interact with the real world...

Oh, and regarding this week's episode. Thud. It's a common card yet packs enough power to shatter the glass around him. Now, considering that cards could be summoned and activated outside duels without penalty or lockdown, imagine an army of Psychic Duelists with Thud... Eeech. :x [/Fridge Horror] I guess this is the reason they did away with the whole concept, so we wouldn't have to deal with such Fridge thoughts.

Originally Posted by Arynis

Burn all you want, still not my fault! ... On a second thought, can't you just settle for a Collective Groan?

No, I cannot; because url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThereIsNoKillLikeOverkill]Overkill is the only way I roll.[/quote]

I remembered, how during the Yusei/Sherry duel, the duel got called off because Aki inserted Stardust Dragon on the Duel Disk to save Sherry from the van. So the Duel Disks check whether a Monster is summoned properly during a duel? I mean, people used to summon monsters outside duels with no lock or penalty of the sort, so I assume the call off function triggers during duels only to prevent cheating.

Except that Aki was not the one duelling. Yusei was; so taking his card that he just played breaks chain of command. That, and the freaking van interrupted the duel first. Or, maybe so; and the makers of the new Duel Discs [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch]finally did the f-ing research[/ur/].

Which leads me to another interesting point -- the whole D-Wheel shutdown during a duel loss. It's essentially a double edged sword. The Security could use it to catch people who use D-Wheels to escape themselves, or try to get away by using monsters, so Security can lock them into a duel instead, making them unable to distract them with summoned monsters for whatever reason, since cheating would shut down their D-Wheel instead. Of course, there's a chance that the Security dueling would still lose and the person they chased would get away. The downside is that the D-Wheel shutting down can very easily lead to accidents, as we had seen with Jack or Hidden Knight - Hook's lock (although Hook was more about literally locking down everything in the D-Wheel other than just shutting it down).

The ones with SW2 are even more extreme; you don't just stop, you spin out. That's really dangerous. People could die who didn't have to during the pursuits. That has to be Yliaster's design; no cop would want someone dead for a traffic violation.

I was going to link Hook's lockdown ability to Aki not being able to activate her Psychic Powers, but then I remembered the Solid Vision did appear, ready to catch Aki, which means Hook didn't lock the D-Wheel's Duel Disk, only the actual vehicle. Argh.

Aki's powers may have been taxed beyond the point of use. She does, after all, overuse them a bit.

Regarding Psychic Powers, the normal Solid Vision monster does have its limitations, doesn't it? I recall someone mentioning that the Duel Disk had built in features which make monsters more realistic (I think this was brought up when Kaiba had Jonouchi duel him with the Duel Disk prototype), and that Direct Attacks are merely simulated (i.e. they knock the opponent down but not actually harm them, unless the card is "real"). However, Solid Vision is supposed to be Hard Light, which would mean it could be able to interact with the real world...

Interact, yes? Affect, no; because light has no matter. It is pure energy, and energy has no solidity. So ironically, Solid Vision is not solid.

Oh, and regarding this week's episode. Thud. It's a common card yet packs enough power to shatter the glass around him. Now, considering that cards could be summoned and activated outside duels without penalty or lockdown, imagine an army of Psychic Duelists with Thud... Eeech. :x [/Fridge Horror] I guess this is the reason they did away with the whole concept, so we wouldn't have to deal with such Fridge thoughts.

That's why Pegasus gave it the most ridiculous summoning condition ever.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

No, I cannot; because Overkill is the only way I roll.

Darn. Where's Paradox when you need him?

Except that Aki was not the one duelling. Yusei was; so taking his card that he just played breaks chain of command. That, and the freaking van interrupted the duel first. Or, maybe so; and the makers of the new Duel Discs finally did the f-ing research.

I'll admit my memory was a bit foggy on that one, forgot that Stardust Dragon was to be summoned. But Yusei still declared he will summon Stardust right there. Besides, how does the Duel Disk recognize that it wasn't Yusei playing the card? Does it have voice recognition or something?

The ones with SW2 are even more extreme; you don't just stop, you spin out. That's really dangerous. People could die who didn't have to during the pursuits. That has to be Yliaster's design; no cop would want someone dead for a traffic violation.

True that. Also, wasn't the WRGP Illiaster's set-up, after all? That'd explain it.

...The question is, of course, if Jose doesn't want the Signers to be killed (nor get worthy people for the Circuit's building out of commission), then why is Speed World 2 so dangerous? Unless it was Placido's design...

Aki's powers may have been taxed beyond the point of use. She does, after all, overuse them a bit.

True.

Interact, yes? Affect, no; because light has no matter. It is pure energy, and energy has no solidity. So ironically, Solid Vision is not solid.

But...

Then why is it called Solid Vision? Because it is capable of interacting with the environment?

That's why Pegasus gave it the most ridiculous summoning condition ever.

Except Pegasus is (likely) dead, ala Pegasus J. Crawford Memory Foundation, so we gotta chalk it up to another card designer. Unless Pegasus created the card while he was still alive, but we have no knowledge of that, so...

Originally Posted by Arynis

Darn. Where's Paradox when you need him?

I'll admit my memory was a bit foggy on that one, forgot that Stardust Dragon was to be summoned. But Yusei still declared he will summon Stardust right there. Besides, how does the Duel Disk recognize that it wasn't Yusei playing the card? Does it have voice recognition or something?

Aki can have transmit her wishes to Stardust by her mind? She is a Signer and Stardust a Signer dragon, so maybe Stardust can have recognizes her. During the duel between Yusei and Aki in episode 41, he fly himself near Yusei's friend to protect them.

Originally Posted by Arynis

True that. Also, wasn't the WRGP Illiaster's set-up, after all? That'd explain it.

...The question is, of course, if Jose doesn't want the Signers to be killed (nor get worthy people for the Circuit's building out of commission), then why is Speed World 2 so dangerous? Unless it was Placido's design...

Indeed, It's Yliaster who has organized WRGP. Maybe Speed World 2 is so dangerous because Tenor wants only best duelists participate?

Originally Posted by Arynis

True.

Originally Posted by Arynis

But...

Then why is it called Solid Vision? Because it is capable of interacting with the environment?

I think Solid Vision is a way to carcterize how DM holograms are realists. A little as a slogan: "they are so realists they seems solid!"

Originally Posted by Arynis

Except Pegasus is (likely) dead, ala Pegasus J. Crawford Memory Foundation, so we gotta chalk it up to another card designer. Unless Pegasus created the card while he was still alive, but we have no knowledge of that, so...

It's possible. But Thud can be the creation of someone who had traveled around the world who like playing Normal monsters and Skill Drain.

Originally Posted by Arynis

Darn. Where's Paradox when you need him?

Busy being absent from time and space, ala Stardust.

I'll admit my memory was a bit foggy on that one, forgot that Stardust Dragon was to be summoned. But Yusei still declared he will summon Stardust right there. Besides, how does the Duel Disk recognize that it wasn't Yusei playing the card? Does it have voice recognition or something?

That would explain how Duel Discs seem to activate autonomously.

True that. Also, wasn't the WRGP Illiaster's set-up, after all? That'd explain it.

...The question is, of course, if Jose doesn't want the Signers to be killed (nor get worthy people for the Circuit's building out of commission), then why is Speed World 2 so dangerous? Unless it was Placido's design...

Placido is the technol,ogically savvy one of the group. Lucciano is the copunterfeiter, and Jose the brains. Most likely it was Placido's design that he somehow sold Jose on.

But...

Then why is it called Solid Vision? Because it is capable of interacting with the environment?

But nothing.

Beacause that's just Engrish enough to qualify as a name, I guess. Keep in mind this show uses a principle of physics to describe a living energy.

Except Pegasus is (likely) dead, ala Pegasus J. Crawford Memory Foundation, so we gotta chalk it up to another card designer. Unless Pegasus created the card while he was still alive, but we have no knowledge of that, so...

God damnit Hayato!

Originally Posted by Allana

Aki can have transmit her wishes to Stardust by her mind? She is a Signer and Stardust a Signer dragon, so maybe Stardust can have recognizes her. During the duel between Yusei and Aki in episode 41, he fly himself near Yusei's friend to protect them.

Stardust being sentient or not was not the specific point here, but the reason the Yusei/Sherry duel was called off due to Aki using Stardust instead of Yusei.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

Busy being absent from time and space, ala Stardust.

Double darn.

Placido is the technol,ogically savvy one of the group. Lucciano is the copunterfeiter, and Jose the brains. Most likely it was Placido's design that he somehow sold Jose on.

Could be.

But nothing.

Hey, don't look at me!

Beacause that's just Engrish enough to qualify as a name, I guess. Keep in mind this show uses a principle of physics to describe a living energy.

True that.

Also, the excessive linking to TV Tropes is horrifyingly affecting anyone who's not a Troper. Put up a disclaimer at least! Oh, wait...

God damnit Hayato!

Or it could be also Frantz, he was the man who was bent on designing cards focused on power. He could have changed his mind after the Ra incident, though.

Originally Posted by Arynis

Could be.

It's more than likely. Placido built an entire robot army, remember? Other than use Placido's technology occasionally, or his sword, what techno-things have the other two done? Roughly 0.

Hey, don't look at me!

I wasn't; I was just having some fun.

Also, the excessive linking to TV Tropes is horrifyingly affecting anyone who's not a Troper. Put up a disclaimer at least! Oh, wait...

Nah man; I'll just stop doing that so regularly.

Or it could be also Frantz, he was the man who was bent on designing cards focused on power. He could have changed his mind after the Ra incident, though.

Hm... could be, could be. Perhaps Placido put him up to it.

Originally Posted by DarkDust_Dragon

It's more than likely. Placido built an entire robot army, remember? Other than use Placido's technology occasionally, or his sword, what techno-things have the other two done? Roughly 0.

That's a good point. Although according to Clark, Illiaster is using the Infinity device to alter history, so that would make them all technology users to an extent. There's also Jose's abdomen Duel Disk, which may or may not be actually his cybernetic part.

I wasn't; I was just having some fun.

Nah man; I'll just stop doing that so regularly.

I was just trying to play along. I didn't mean it in a bad way. :< It's cool with me, really.

(Or alternately, you can chalk up the improper names for technology to Doing It For The Art!)

Hm... could be, could be. Perhaps Placido put him up to it.

It's Illiaster, after all. They are pulling the strings all the time.