Thread: Yuugi Beat Atemu, Skill or Fate?

I'd like to point out that after finishing YGO:R, Atemu has apparently taken a page out of Malik's book at started using Raise Dead to revive his Gods and finish his duels, since he did the same thing twice in that series. That being said, It isn't unreasonable to say that Yugi really did anticipate Atemu's finishing move to be a "Raise Dead -> God Card" combo.

Plus, Yugi was alway one step ahead of Atemu durring their duel. Every time Atemu gained the upper hand, Yugi answered with another counter.

I'd definately say that Yugi's victory over AAtemu was a result of his skill.

EDIT:

Oh shit! I didn't realize how old this thread was, seeing as how it was so very close to the top of the page. >.>

Definately skill. Atem clearly stated that Yugi had surpassed him.

i think fate played a major role in it lol
but skill was involved when it came to getting rid of the gods XD
im torn between the 2lol
but i wish theyd show yugis story without atem you know?

Originally Posted by Volroc

i think fate played a major role in it lol
but skill was involved when it came to getting rid of the gods XD
im torn between the 2lol
but i wish theyd show yugis story without atem you know?

yeah it would be pretty legit to see an after story about Yugi
maybe it could be like a One shot (50 pages or so) just kind of an after math

that'd be cool
LETS SEND FAN LETTERS TO JUMP!!!!

Skill when he defeated all the God cards with the Magnet Combo.

Fate when Yugi chose Monster Reborn to seal in the Sacrophagus. Thus Atemu playing it to bring back Osiris and Yugi negating the magic card with the effect of sacrophagus. That is soo fate.

Fate.

Before this duel, we had never seen Y�gi fight himself with his own deck. (exept Yu-Gi-Oh R but it's different). It's true he fight against Pegasus and Joey when he is possessed by Marik. But, in theses duels, he fight with help of Atem. Y�gi doesn't fight himself really. In Ceremonial Battle, he fight for the first time by himself. His deck is interesting in his construction: he didn't target directly monster's opponent, only his monsters and himself. In this point of view, Yugi's deck is near of Yusei's deck somewhere. His strategy is good but it seems Yugi didn't fight Atem's deck before this, he has no one training. Win against Atem when it's the first time that Yugi fight against him truly ? I say possible but difficult. I'm not saying Yugi has no one skills. He has skills like duelist. He is intelligent and knows perfectly Duel Monsters. But sucess for the first time against the one who is probably the more powerful duelist is somewhere unexpected. It's my impression.

Originally Posted by Allana

Before this duel, we had never seen Y�gi fight himself with his own deck. (exept Yu-Gi-Oh R but it's different). It's true he fight against Pegasus and Joey when he is possessed by Marik. But, in theses duels, he fight with help of Atem. Y�gi doesn't fight himself really. In Ceremonial Battle, he fight for the first time by himself.

In the manga, Yuugi played Dungeon Dice Monsters against Otogi without any help (well, you might say he had some help from Dark Bakura...). Of course the anime version messed that part up so badly that the other Yuugi ended up fighting Otogi.

Fate: In the sense that Atemu had to return to his time and his place, but also what I believe to be an indication of Yugi finally being able to cope without the help of his "other half". I think the writers wanted to show Yugi develop from what was originally portrayed as a rather meek and reliant person (reliant on Atemu that is), to this strong, independent character we see in the final episode. And so because of that, it was destined that Yugi would beat Atemu.
But it was also Skill: Yugi played well in that game. People probably thought "OHNOEZ THREE GOD CARDZ YUGI IS DEAD", but he managed to come back and win.

Originally Posted by russ869

In the manga, Yuugi played Dungeon Dice Monsters against Otogi without any help (well, you might say he had some help from Dark Bakura...). Of course the anime version messed that part up so badly that the other Yuugi ended up fighting Otogi.

It's true. I read the manga but I talked about the anime for this topic.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...RulesIHavePlot

skill ^-^ ^-^

Of course it's a skill because don't forget that Atem summoned his 3 strongest monsters and to survive that-is very difficult.
I think Yugi learned during the show how Atem is dueling so he could neutralize Atem more easy than others.

I think is fate. They are meant to be together in this life, and Yugi is meant to beat Atem to finnaly send him to underworld. I thinks the meaning of that duel dor itself is so pretty. Is beyond of a simple duel or tecniques.

Fate.

Otherwise he wouldn't have drawn the cards he drew to defeat Atemu. XP

It was skill, though I'll admit a whole bunch of Yu-Gi-Oh! involved destiny draws, Yugi's duel as far as Yugi's side was concerned was not influenced by destiny draws. I mean it's a card game so luck is going to influence the outcome of course, but as far as when the game initiated every move that Yugi made was precise due to his knowledge of his deck and the understandment of Atem.

As far a dueling before hand, the way I see it is that every duel before Pegasus was Yugi dueling with Atems influence. It wasn't until the duel with Pegasus(and bakura for that matter) that we see Atem as a separate entity.

Then it progresses into Battle City and that's where Atem duels and Yugi takes backseat. In this sense, it is here that Atem actually gains the title King of Duelist as opposed to Duelist Kingdom. It is also around this time that we see the game itself evolve, something that Pegasus himself even stated, that the game was evolving everyday.

It is finally in the Ceremonial Arc that we see that Yugi, has become a strong duelist that's just as strong as Atem as he is able to defeat Bakura a strong rival of Atems, potentially at the same level of Malik and Kaiba(though to be fair, I don't feel that Malik was much of an opponent even after he breaks down and becomes sadistic).

Anyways it's just my opinion on the whole evolution of the game and the duelist themselves.

I think that Yugi surpassed Atem in skil, but I also think it was fate too.

skill........

If it was Fate, YGO Duel Monsters was a pointless series in regards to Yuugi's development, both as a human and as a duelist.
Sure, it was fated that Atemu would have to return to the afterlife eventually and the fact that Yuugi was going to duel him was probably fated also. But, Ishizu did say Atemu controlled his own Fate with the cards in his deck, hence why he could summon all the God cards within little time of each other. So, Atemu controlling his Fate is like saying there's almost zero chances to defeat him.
Fate against Fate is no good. This duel would have ended in a tie if Yuugi's moves were also manipulated by Fate. It had to be skill that defeated Atemu. There is just no other way.

Definitely a bit of both. Yuugi could take weak monsters like Marshmalon and use their special ability effectively or make them stronger like with Silent Magician. That's skill. But also Atem had to move on and Yuugi was chosen by the Puzzle for that purpose.

It was skill no doubt although Atemu does appear when yugi duels it was only because yugi didn't have confident not because he sucks at dueling. besides they both created their own unique decks before they dueled.

Yo Yugi, you a nice guy and I'ma let you finish; but the Pharaoh had the maddest skills of all time. THE MADDEST SKILLS OF ALL TIME.

Sorry, but it has to be fate. First, it was the only way the series could end. Second, that stunt he pulled with the 3 Gods would never have worked under any other circumstances. Finally, the Pharaoh had him on the ropes from the very beginning of the game. Yugi's reversal, were it not so epic, would be as wall-banging as Yusei's win against Jean.

I don't follow. Maybe I'm missing a few of the details from the anime's version (the god killing combo shouldn't have worked though, I'll give you that. Neither should Cracked Hatchet have worked on Obelisk, but I'm willing to bet that got a bunkoban fix simillar to the Corrosion of Earth fix the anime had. Or, hoping rather than betting. lol) but from what I remember of the manga's version is that Yugi was pretty much one step ahead of Atem the entire time.

The point of the duel was not onlt to give Atem a passage to the afterlife but also to show that Yugi had become strong and that he had surpassed Atem. It's pretty much canon that Yugi is a better duelist than Atem.

Also, we did swee Yugi duel on his own when he gave the puzzle to Jounouchi while trying to find a way out of the situation at the same time. He did pretty well then.

I always figured that since the God cards were on the same side of the field and under the control of one person, Ra's immunity didn't kick in because it wasn't an opponent's god card. Hence the combo was capable of working in the first place. Ra's immunity didn't kick in due to be effected by cards controlled by its controller.

Yugi was clearly one step ahead of Atem, right from the start. I don't know how anyone could claim that the duel and its resolution was anything close to, or even similar to an asspull like Yusei. It was clearly defined and within the realm of strategy. Even if the anime kinda did what they usually do to duels.

Now, I believe its skill, since Yugi has been Atem's partner for at least a few years before the Ceremonial Battle, and Yugi has clearly learned a lot from him and know all his strategies. Since Atem has never seen Yugi battled, Atem has completely no knowledge of Yugi's strategies. So it's natural for Yugi to edit his Deck to counter Atem's Deck using this advantage, and hence, beating him. And this is Kazuki-sensei's message in the original story: that two separate personalities can never be one.

The whole point of the duel was to show off Yugi's new "skills" and that he no longer needed Atem. So I would have to go with skill. Yugi also predicted a lot of Atem's moves, which also requires a lot of skill. The fact that Yugi also picked Raise Dead/Monster Reborn to seal within Golden Sarcophagus was not only symbolic, but showed how Yugi was able to think ahead and ultimately defeat Atem.

I'd say both But I'm sure Yugi learned many things from Atem, but I'd say fate had a big role as well.

Originally Posted by Ragna

I don't follow. Maybe I'm missing a few of the details from the anime's version (the god killing combo shouldn't have worked though, I'll give you that. Neither should Cracked Hatchet have worked on Obelisk, but I'm willing to bet that got a bunkoban fix simillar to the Corrosion of Earth fix the anime had. Or, hoping rather than betting. lol) but from what I remember of the manga's version is that Yugi was pretty much one step ahead of Atem the entire time.

The manga certainly gave Yugi a leading edge, which was surprising but acceptable. The anime threw that out the window, with Atem having the run of the show up until his last turn. Yugi really only made a comeback at the very end in the anime.

The point of the duel was not only to give Atem a passage to the afterlife but also to show that Yugi had become strong and that he had surpassed Atem. It's pretty much canon that Yugi is a better duelist than Atem.

In terms of the manga, agreeable; but again, the anime threw it out the window.

Also, we did see Yugi duel on his own when he gave the puzzle to Jounouchi while trying to find a way out of the situation at the same time. He did pretty well then.

Yeah, I'll give him that.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

I always figured that since the God cards were on the same side of the field and under the control of one person, Ra's immunity didn't kick in because it wasn't an opponent's god card. Hence the combo was capable of working in the first place. Ra's immunity didn't kick in due to be effected by cards controlled by its controller.

Apart from GX (which very blatantly ignored most of DM) and 5D's (whose Gods do not have blanket immunity), when exactly did a character use an effect on their own God Card that wasn't made for Gods? My guess it that it's because they forgot about the established Divine Hierarchy; that was in full force in Battle City, but glossed over after that. Plus, since Ra wasn't in the manga, they needed some way to get rid of him or Yugi would likely lose.

Even if the anime kinda did what they usually do to duels.

The anime basically doubled the length of the duel, and cut out the 6-card-hand deal. In order to make it drag on, they needed more moves; and sadly, that apparently involved throwing stuff to the wind. Yugi has skills, no doubt; but think about how much work, and by association chance, goes into a strategy like that. If Yugi had gotten even 1 wrong card, he'd have lost.

Originally Posted by cashman_11

The whole point of the duel was to show off Yugi's new "skills" and that he no longer needed Atem. So I would have to go with skill. Yugi also predicted a lot of Atem's moves, which also requires a lot of skill. The fact that Yugi also picked Raise Dead/Monster Reborn to seal within Golden Sarcophagus was not only symbolic, but showed how Yugi was able to think ahead and ultimately defeat Atem.

Point taken; but as was mentioned earlier, Monster Reborn was a pretty obvious choice. (One which, by the way, makes no sense in the anime, as he was using it in Main Phase 2 when he couldn't attack with it, and so would have lost it at the End Phase; in the manga, it was in chain to the attack, and its success would have meant Yugi's loss. See what the anime did?)

Actually, the God Hierarchy was thrown out the window when Yugi used Obelisk's Soul Energy Max against Ra. In the manga, Ra survived because of the Hierarchy, and with Malik's Class System in the anime.

...and Yeah, anime!Atem's Osiris move makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Ragna

Actually, the God Hierarchy was thrown out the window when Yugi used Obelisk's Soul Energy Max against Ra. In the manga, Ra survived because of the Hierarchy, and with Malik's Class System in the anime.

That's right. However, even that makes no sense, as Osiris had no effect on Ra in the very same duel.

...and Yeah, anime!Atem's Osiris move makes no sense.

Nope. Even if Yugi had let it through, it was a wasted move.