Thread: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

To start this off, I will simply post what I posted yesterday.

The reasons he is a bad writer are as follows:

A. He is sexist. Any female he writes for is either ruined after being already established by another writer or his own just never develop in the first place and are reduced to the role of "high school crush" and "cheerleader". Look at Cathy and Kotori for a good example of this. Look at Aki and Anzu and Asuka for good examples of ruining previously established characters. Look at Rei in GX for under-developing female characters. See Ruka for the case of making his females sadly useless and leaving big brother hero to bleed and do all the work and make her character look bad.

B. He has a ton of great mythological, overthetop and unique ideas that he sets up and either abandons them halfway through or executes them laughably bad. See most of 5D's for such good examples. Z-one is one of the best. If he was truly Yusei from the future and Jack had won the final match, the end of 5D's would have gone down as one of the best in the franchise, right under the original's. But instead he sticks to corporate shonen interest and is too afraid to try something new and daring out.

C. Anything he writes that is decent or really good (the Aporia match against the twins and Jack and Rua's birthmark) take so long to pan out that in the end they don't matter much.

D. If I can't emphasize this enough, he is sexist. Not that I mind the fanservice, but he can show the females off just as easily and even better while having them actually DOING something other than standing and staring.

And as others mentioned, the females always say the protagonists name, lol.

Well, this only scrapes the surface. We have the opportunity to discuss everything here, from his other works to breaking down his work on DM and GX and season 3 of 5D's.

Is it not a whole team of writes not just him. Well since he is above them in authority? He carries the responsibility from the results the team produces ? And since he has the authority and responsibility he also probably has the control and HAS TO aim for better results even if outside interference.

And all this leads to. What is the AIM of these teams producing these YGO! series. Seriously ?

Make a good show for card games or just make a long commercial for card games ?

Originally Posted by DARKMASTER

Is it not a whole team of writes not just him. Well since he is above them in authority? He carries the responsibility from the results the team produces ? And since he has the authority and responsibility he also probably has the control and HAS TO aim for better results even if outside interference.

He has a team under him, but he is the screenwriter and decides the final results.

He did the following:

The Doma Arc
The Anime Memory Arc
GX's season 4
5D's season 3 onward, otherwise called just "season 2"

Notice the big differences in these compared to the rest of the series.

The one thing I dislike is how it always seems to involve either time or space/dimension travel through multiple dimensions or timelines. It can get very confusing considering the rules he uses are never fully explained like they are in such classics involving time and space/dimension travel such as Bttf, Star Trek, etc. Even in Harry Potter, time travel rules are explained very clearly (as in, nothing can ever be changed, things are destined to happen).

(Yes, I have a few gripes of my own with him).

That raises my other main issue with him.

All of his ideas involving humanity and time travel are very good and interesting, but the problem is he recycles them over and over to the point where it becomes "AGAIN? I don't care about this anymore".

I mean, he did the darkness of the heart/humanity sucks plot line how many times?

OBJECTION!

I object to the structure of this thread and its particular way of going about accomplishing its goals.

Now, first of all, let me say this: I will be making no attempt to defend Yoshida of any well-thought-out accusation any time soon. I personally believe he's a hack, and the way he has handled every YGO series that he has had creative input and/or control over is nothing short of appalling and unprofessional. That said, I am very much opposed to opening the thread and spelling out that "comments defending Yoshida will be deleted". We do not need that kind of censorship. Trolling comments deserve nothing but contempt, but if someone did in all honesty have a well thought out and well-expressed opinion on Yoshida which happens to stand at odds with our own, we who dislike Yoshida should have no reason not to engage them in healthy, rational, nerdy point-by-point discussion. Threatening these people and announcing that they and their opinions are not welcome make it look less like our own opinions are the product of careful thought and analysis and more like we're a bunch of angry jerks who can't handle criticism. Do we really want to present people who dislike Yoshida that way? Really?

Second of all, Shin Yoshida does not deserve this much attention if there is going to be no round-table discussion. If people are not allowed to address the points raised, why bother compiling them? We know why we dislike Yoshida, if we aren't sharing these lists with people who do like him or wish to defend his writing, why bother making them in the first place? We could be doing any number of positive, interesting things with our time than thinking about the individual who gave us Aki the deleted Pokedex entry and Yusei Christ, master of Hyper Mode Aerial Synchro Summons for Shooting Narhwal Dragon. Anything. Anything. Like finding a writer who isn't a hack to talk about.

Either we open this topic to discussion, or we freely admit it's a circlejerk of Yoshida hate, and as deserving as he is of that, circlejerks are never cool. Ever.

Originally Posted by ScarletWeather

OBJECTION!

I object to the structure of this thread and its particular way of going about accomplishing its goals.

Now, first of all, let me say this: I will be making no attempt to defend Yoshida of any well-thought-out accusation any time soon. I personally believe he's a hack, and the way he has handled every YGO series that he has had creative input and/or control over is nothing short of appalling and unprofessional. That said, I am very much opposed to opening the thread and spelling out that "comments defending Yoshida will be deleted". We do not need that kind of censorship. Trolling comments deserve nothing but contempt, but if someone did in all honesty have a well thought out and well-expressed opinion on Yoshida which happens to stand at odds with our own, we who dislike Yoshida should have no reason not to engage them in healthy, rational, nerdy point-by-point discussion. Threatening these people and announcing that they and their opinions are not welcome make it look less like our own opinions are the product of careful thought and analysis and more like we're a bunch of angry jerks who can't handle criticism. Do we really want to present people who dislike Yoshida that way? Really?

Second of all, Shin Yoshida does not deserve this much attention if there is going to be no round-table discussion. If people are not allowed to address the points raised, why bother compiling them? We know why we dislike Yoshida, if we aren't sharing these lists with people who do like him or wish to defend his writing, why bother making them in the first place? We could be doing any number of positive, interesting things with our time than thinking about the individual who gave us Aki the deleted Pokedex entry and Yusei Christ, master of Hyper Mode Aerial Synchro Summons for Shooting Narhwal Dragon. Anything. Anything. Like finding a writer who isn't a hack to talk about.

Either we open this topic to discussion, or we freely admit it's a circlejerk of Yoshida hate, and as deserving as he is of that, circlejerks are never cool. Ever.

You make a point. Very well then I shall modify it to include everyone and open up the disccussion. In which case can a Mod change the title to get rid of everything after Shin Yoshida. Thankyou.

I wonder, did you Drago consult GoldenUmi on those thread rules? I suggest we take them out, so people who do like his writing can come in and enjoy a nice debate (hey, lets put it there in the Yugioh debate section if that is the case).

EDIT: Glad you worked that out.

I feel a bit guilty in confessing that I actually liked the DOMA arc I liked the characters and the duel where Atem plays the seal of Orichalcos and loses Yugi's soul is one of my favourite episodes.

Everything else is a bit crappy.

My main gripes are:

1. Aki's derailment - she was by far my most favourite female Yugioh character ever and he went through the trouble of having her learn how to ride and duel on a D-Wheel only to have her relegated to a "benchwarmer" in her cute little hotpants with very few lines except "Yusei". I longed for Divine to return and take her away from Team 5D's so she could be the Black Rose Witch again and return to her former awesomeness.

2. Ojamanjoume - I've mentioned this already today but there is no way in hell that Manjoume wanted to be a pro duellist that bad that he would dress up as Ojama Yellow and throw a duel to Judai (something that he had wanted to do in all the time he was at DA). The whole set up of those episodes was that he wanted to make it without relying on his brothers but, by god, if they hadn't disowned him before this (which I don't think they did in the Japanese, just the dub), they would do now for bringing that sort of shame on the family name. And, much as I appreciated the token gesture of him beating Edo, his character was made a complete mockery. And since I'm on a Manjoume rant..... Yoshida then wrote into the story that he bloody cheated in the pro-leagues by picking the second card from his deck and not the top one


3. Shark is also a rival character and also cheated in the pro leagues....hmmm... that sounds familiar!!!


4. Chickening out of Zone being Yusei. That could have been a fantastic plot twist. We were all set up for it and then when it came to the crunch, he was just a Yusei fan boy who we'd never seen before and didn't have enough episodes left for us to gain enough information to care about him. He didn't have to be Yusei and he could have made us care about Zone (look at Aporia, a lot of us went from hating him to loving him after his duel with Jack and the twins).

5. He needs to quit with the time travelling stories. It made no sense when Judai duelled Yugi and Ylliaster/Zone & Pals made no sense either. I don't love time travelling stories but done correctly they can be good but Yoshida's time travelling just leaves me confused and with too many unanswered questions.

6. Protagonists deck sizes and one off ass pull cards - too tired to get annoyed about this now but Yusei was shocking and Yuma is gradually getting his ass ready week by week.

I just think that in any other job he would have been sacked but this just shows how successful the Yugioh brand is because he is pretty much single handedly destroying it and somehow it survives.

Anyway, I'm bored of moaning now so I'll get my coat and leave....

Originally Posted by 63cohen

I wonder, did you Drago consult GoldenUmi on those thread rules? I suggest we take them out, so people who do like his writing can come in and enjoy a nice debate (hey, lets put it there in the Yugioh debate section if that is the case).

EDIT: Glad you worked that out.

No, I did not.

In which case can you move it. Thanks.

I would argue though that that changes the origanal purpose of the thread somewhat. It was not my intention for it to be just filled with people complaing about everything whenever they had an issue - twas my plan to keep it open only a short time, get a general agreement on why we hate him and then close up shop - but a general discussion does seem better though, you are quite right.

In which case, I will argue that your major issue of disliking him and one of Umi's gripe sortof doesn't hold up for the obvious reason. Every writer has the one story they are good at and tell, that is no different here, Yoshida writes about humanity and time travel/dimensions because that's what he does. However we always get to the same point and he doesn't vary his execution of the story at all I find.

Why do you like him then? Since I can now ask that

Originally Posted by GoldenUmi

He has a team under him, but he is the screenwriter and decides the final results.

He did the following:

The Doma Arc
The Anime Memory Arc
GX's season 4
5D's season 3 onward, otherwise called just "season 2"

Notice the big differences in these compared to the rest of the series.

CORRECTION: He did write the Dark Signer arc of 5D's, but I suspect the reason it has fairly positive reception compared to the rest is because he was using some notes/ideas Tomioka left behind.

Now my biggest gripe with him is that he uses and reuses the same plot devices again and again. DOMA was a cult, Darkness was a cult, Dark Signers was a cult, Yliaster was a cult. We get it, I think its time to retire those plot devices. Another thing is that he turns everybody into paper thin cutouts of themselves. While isn't exactly fair to compare say, season 1 Aki with season 3 Aki because of the character development happening, I think the differences between old and new Yusei should be obvious. He turned my favorite character of the show into the scrappy and yes I'm butthurt about it. Though Jack seems to be a favorite of his, since he suffered the least out of the entire cast.

He can write mythology and all other kinds of geeky references like no tomorrow, but please make him just a consultant on that stuff only.

Another thing about his sexist ideals I wanted to add, rarely he may introduce a strong female character but unfortunately reduce her to being a side role/MIA most of the time. See Sherry for a prime example. She's my favorite female character of 5D's and after she fell down the wormhole she did literally nothing but be a roadblock.

He needs to stop contradicting shit. Such as the Abandoned Dorm fiasco (I seriously doubt anybody survived/was rescued except for Fujiwara and Fubuki), rewriting Yliaster, turning Rexy into an inflatable balloon with a god complex and ZONE's identity when it was crystal clear they were gonna make him Yusei

...phew.

Originally Posted by Heather

I feel a bit guilty in confessing that I actually liked the DOMA arc

I liked the arc too. I liked some of GX season 4 and season 3-5 of 5D's. That being said, we all know they could have been much better. And that is the purpose of this thread. I don't have time to right now, but I would like to bring the topic of discussion to each arc he did.

Originally Posted by dragosix

In which case, I will argue that your major issue of disliking him and one of Umi's gripe sortof doesn't hold up for the obvious reason. Every writer has the one story they are good at and tell, that is no different here, Yoshida writes about humanity and time travel/dimensions because that's what he does. However we always get to the same point and he doesn't vary his execution of the story at all I find.

Yes, every writer has his own style and type of story he's good at. But what makes those writers bad is when you can't take the same basic idea in different stories with different characters and make them distinguishable enough from one another in a way that expressed creativity.

Doma and Yliaster, for example, are obviously the same, minus the new twist of his time travel stuff.

Leader with hax powers, believing he has the right to change the world and manipulating others lives?

Check.

Organization that rewrites/alters history?

Check.

Humans suck plot?

Check.

Darkness of the heart?

Check.

Magical cards appearing out of thin air?

Check.

No explanation for any of these said events?

Check.

In fact, add GX season 4 into this as well.

Originally Posted by Starry

CORRECTION: He did write the Dark Signer arc of 5D's, but I suspect the reason it has fairly positive reception compared to the rest is because he was using some notes/ideas Tomioka left behind.

Oh yes, he did.

What does that have?

Darkness of heart?

Check.

Hax power?

Check.

Evil organization believing they can change the world?

Check.

Though to be fair, this arc was better written than the others. It was obvious he had good notes until the notes ran out and he had to end the arc in its shitty way.

I liked DOMA and GX season 4, though I too can see that they had many similarities and similar problems that are shared with the Yliaster arc.

I remember someone saying that Yoshida's writing is actually relatively popular in Japan. I don't know if that's true, but if it is true, what does it mean for the argument against his writing? Is he a successful writer because he can appeal to his intended audience, or is he not, because his larger global audience finds it distasteful? I'm no literature expert, so..............

Just typing out my thoughts. I apologize if they don't make any sense.

The fact he's the source of some of the worst YGO specific tropes it has to offer, and his blatant disregard for the continuity of the original series just irritates me to no end.

That and he tells the same goddamn story over and over again. Every filler arc of YGO he does is just Doma Version X.

The final straw was the bright idea of him telling the same story twice in anime and manga. It's like the YGO franchise enjoys fisting itself til it bleeds.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

The fact he's the source of some of the worst YGO specific tropes it has to offer, and his blatant disregard for the continuity of the original series just irritates me to no end.

That and he tells the same goddamn story over and over again. Every filler arc of YGO he does is just Doma Version X.

The final straw was the bright idea of him telling the same story twice in anime and manga. It's like the YGO franchise enjoys fisting itself til it bleeds.

Does anybody know why Yoshida is repeatedly tasked with being the Head Writer for the Yu-Gi-Oh! anime, when there are other, more Tomioka-esque, writers out there?

Originally Posted by sd2000

Does anybody know why Yoshida is repeatedly tasked with being the Head Writer for the Yu-Gi-Oh! anime, when there are other, more Tomioka-esque, writers out there?

Because its cheaper or the card game still sells like hotcakes despite how shitty the anime has gotten.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

The fact he's the source of some of the worst YGO specific tropes it has to offer, and his blatant disregard for the continuity of the original series just irritates me to no end.

Would you care to clarify what tropes he is actually the source of and why they are so bad?

Originally Posted by dragosix

Would you care to clarify what tropes he is actually the source of and why they are so bad?

Well...since you asked.

1.) The super secret society that's existed since forever and is the number one source of all the major world occurrences in the world of YGO.

2.) The miraculous cards from beyond that are the only key to defeat said evil super secret society and super boss.

3.) The magical duel monsters world where Key Maces, Shining Friendships and Dream Sprites play happily until something HORRIBLE happens and they need our help!

4.) The evil villains who play YGO and ride motorcycles to boot. Dude. They mean business, I mean look! They're on motorcycles!

5.) The darkness of the heart... It all boils down to fcvking darkness of the heart every. Damn. Time.

6.) The villain just HAS to go on a spiel about how mankind is a threat to the planet, creates their own destruction with war, hate, etc, and really, they aren't THAT bad compared to foolish humans. EVERY villain pulls this. From Dartz, to Aporia, to Z-ONE.

7.) And the ending always just...falls flat on its face in terms of execution. From that bizarre, and I'm pretty sure illegal combo Yugi did to somehow beat infinity by multiplying infinity times two with his random Legend of Heart Knights that for some bizarre reason looked like Yugi, Jou and Kaiba....to Z-ONE being a random cosplayer, Clustering Wishes crap and....that final duel between Jack and Yusei....

Yoshida inevitably creates some ending that just makes you wish he just stopped while he was ahead.

That's my two cents.

If I were to actually say something positive about Yoshida's work, it'd be that they're cool to look at sometimes. (Ignoring Zexal of course) They're no/little/bad substance in what he writes. But for those who don't pay attention, they can be some of the coolest moments in the franchise.

A lot of casual YGO fans I talk to tell me sometimes how DOMA, GX Season 4, and parts of 5D's seasons 3-5 are their favorite parts in the franchise. That says something.

He's still a bad writer though, obviously.

Originally Posted by Siliva

If I were to actually say something positive about Yoshida's work, it'd be that they're cool to look at sometimes. (Ignoring Zexal of course) They're no/little/bad substance in what he writes. But for those who don't pay attention, they can be some of the coolest moments in the franchise.

A lot of casual YGO fans I talk to tell me sometimes how DOMA, GX Season 4, and parts of 5D's seasons 3-5 are their favorite parts in the franchise. That says something.

He's still a bad writer though, obviously.

But that is the animation, isn't it? Mostly. I suppose he gets props for the ideas that allowed them to be animated. I would certainly agee that to look at, GX Season 4 and 5Ds were really cool to look at. Why don't you like Yoshida's writing?

To reinforce Mako's post, this is how the DOMA arc, the Dark Signer arc, the Society of Light arc, and the Tenor arc all played out.

Society of Light was not headed by Yoshida, though he did work on it.

Random Mook shows up and is defeated by the main character. (Yugi vs. Gurimo/ Judai vs. Edo's draft deck/ Yusei vs. Dick Pitt and Ghost)
Head villains watch from their evil lair. (Dartz's temple/ Saiou's light place/ Rudger's hideout/ The Tenors... whateve that was)
The real villains show up and have a duel with the main character. (Raphael, Edo's real deck, Kiryu)
They defeat the hero, but he is saved from the consequences by some outside force. (Yugi/ Judai's gentle darkness/ Motorcycle wreck)
The hero now has to go through some soul searching to get over the previous battle. (Atem vs. Yugi/ Judai's obtaining the Spacians/ Yusei getting Atlus punched!/ Accel Synchro)
One of the side characters has some kind of love story with the enemy. (Jonouchi vs Mai/ Jack vs. Carly/ Yusei and Bruno. =P)
One of the side characters is held responsible for an enemy's relative being killed. (Kaiba vs. Amelda/ Aki vs. Misty/ Yusei and Zero Reverse... for some reason...)
When the time comes for the final battle, it's always multiple heroes vs. the big bad. (Dartz vs. Yugi and Kaiba/ Saiou vs. the Edo-Judai boss rush/ Godwin vs. Satisfaction Trio)
The villain is defeated, and atones for his sins before going away. (Dartz/ Godwin)

So we agree that he cannot write long lasting series. At least not an anime series with above 100 episodes.
Cuz if its too long he finds time to repeat his antics and ruin all good and strong female characters no matter if started by him or some other writer.

I like Doma but only when I watch it after Ceremonial Battle X). Its like a movie. Thinking of it as having no connection to the series, but its longer. Specially that Doma's end did not affected the manga's plot at all. Its another story how MW was adapted after that.

Originally Posted by Siliva

If I were to actually say something positive about Yoshida's work, it'd be that they're cool to look at sometimes. (Ignoring Zexal of course) They're no/little/bad substance in what he writes. But for those who don't pay attention, they can be some of the coolest moments in the franchise.

A lot of casual YGO fans I talk to tell me sometimes how DOMA, GX Season 4, and parts of 5D's seasons 3-5 are their favorite parts in the franchise. That says something.

He's still a bad writer though, obviously.

That's true, but with each arc he writes, he loses more of whatever quality he had previously.

Doma was his best and it's all been a steady decline since. Doma had its problems, however it was still very entertaining in it's own right and had some of the best animation, dialogue, and duels. It was done while giving a damn.

Now lets look at the Freedom Filler arc and the tail end of the WRGP. That was ass.

And now we're in Zexal. God help us.

I like a single aspect out of him, the reaction. It takes a special type of writing to be either loved or hated in such a manner.

Lookint at Ragna's post.

LOL THE PATTERNS.

Mako at least that may mean that Zexal will be even shorter/will have less eps.

Until we come to a sort enough YGO series where Yoshida will have no time but to put only the good stuff he can make up. OR learn how to write GOOD long plots.

1. He shafts most of his characters in favor of more "popular" ones.
2. As GoldenUmi said, he's just plain sexist.
3. His plots take forever to play out [Life Stream Dragon] or are never even resolved [mysterious man of Yliaster]
4. His plots are just bizarre really [a man using genetic surgery to make himself look like an 18 year old? Creeeeeeeeeeepy]

What Yoshida did to the Memory arc is the single greatest black mark on Yoshida's recornd. All the Team Taiyous in the world couldn't make up for that, in my opinion.

To answer the question of hwo Yoshida keeps getting work as the head YGO writer... Well, ZeXal is the first time he's haad that role from the get-go. The head writer in DM flipped around a few time, but was mostly Junki Takegami, iirc.

Junki Takegami went on to be the head writer for GX, which I assume is why Yoshida was left to finish DM with he Memory Arc.

After the Yubel arc, Junki left for some reason. Yoshida was promoted to head writer to finish up GX.

Atsuhiro Tomioka was called in at the start of 5D's and was the head for 26 episodes. After he left to be the head writer for Pokemon, which left Yoshida in the head spot yet again.

So, in ZeXal, it's like they just went "**** IT!" and gave Yoshida the job.

Originally Posted by PTDmaster

1. He shafts most of his characters in favor of more "popular" ones.
2. As GoldenUmi said, he's just plain sexist.
3. His plots take forever to play out [Life Stream Dragon] or are never even resolved [mysterious man of Yliaster]
4. His plots are just bizarre really [a man using genetic surgery to make himself look like an 18 year old? Creeeeeeeeeeepy]

1. Most likely Konami intervention to advertise cards.
2. Most likely Konami intervention to advertise cards (male characters have a bit more staying power than females, don't ask me why)
3. Most likely Konami intervention to advertise cards
4. Pretty solid point.

Cohen, advertising cards is a pretty bad reason to be sexist. It's not like one or more of Team Ragnarok couldn't have been a chick, and Aki runs PLANTS for God's sake.

Originally Posted by DARKMASTER

Lookint at Ragna's post.

LOL THE PATTERNS.

Mako at least that may mean that Zexal will be even shorter/will have less eps.

Until we come to a sort enough YGO series where Yoshida will have no time but to put only the good stuff he can make up. OR learn how to write GOOD long plots.

Or there could finally be a new, fresher mind as series composer.
Could end up being even worse than Yoshida, but it worked out pretty well for 5D's in its first arc.

Originally Posted by Ragna

Cohen, advertising cards is a pretty bad reason to be sexist. It's not like one or more of Team Ragnarok couldn't have been a chick, and Aki runs PLANTS for God's sake.

I am not defending the reasoning, just putting it out there.

Originally Posted by 63cohen

1. Most likely Konami intervention to advertise cards.
2. Most likely Konami intervention to advertise cards (male characters have a bit more staying power than females, don't ask me why)
3. Most likely Konami intervention to advertise cards
4. Pretty solid point.

He's been doing this crap before Konami's sudden "zeal" to advertise. He shafted Mai in Doma in almost every way, although to his credit, he did make Mai a pretty badass, dangerous duelist. But other than that, she pretty much went straight to hell and in the end we're left with a sadly tattered relationship.

I am not saying this is because of Zexal, I was looking back in the past and when it mattered, he did it for advertising cards. Look at WRGP. Why the hell are there 7 episodes for Team Unicorn, a team we see once and never again after their duel? To sell cards. Same for Ragnorak (although, they have more staying power as they helped them get onto the Arc Cradel and created a nice "two options to save the world" set up).

He's not talking about ZeXal. He's just using the word "zeal" because it relates to Yu-Gi-Oh! now.

Team Unicorn showed up way before the WRGP started and were hyped up as the stongest players in the tournament.

Team Ragnarok just... shows up and are suddenly the group who have always been the top contenders. They just suck.

Originally Posted by 63cohen

I am not saying this is because of Zexal, I was looking back in the past and when it mattered, he did it for advertising cards. Look at WRGP. Why the hell are there 7 episodes for Team Unicorn, a team we see once and never again after their duel? To sell cards. Same for Ragnorak (although, they have more staying power as they helped them get onto the Arc Cradel and created a nice "two options to save the world" set up).

Ragnarok showed that there was a phenomenon similar to the Signers in other parts of the world, but they could have been done better.

Originally Posted by sd2000

Ragnarok showed that there was a phenomenon similar to the Signers in other parts of the world, but they could have been done better.

Yes, it created a pretty nice "see which of us is qualified to save the world" type of thing. The Aesir woke up in order to stop Yliaster. They didn't want 5Ds help because that wasn't what the Aesir wanted.

Nevermind the fact that the Aesir made no damn sense within the context of the series.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

Nevermind the fact that the Aesir made no damn sense within the context of the series.

Please elaborate.

Well, for starters... they grew on freaking trees.

....Well, if these guys are the "chosen ones" by the Aesir, and it's their job to save the world.

...Where the fcvk have the Aesir been during the 101 other calamities that befell the world that other people had to step up and fix?

I didn't see Odin, Thor, or Loki trying to stop the world when Zorc was about to curbstomp it. Or when Dartz wanted to take a stab at reseting it to zero.

Or when Saiou wanted to burn up the world and envelope it in space radiation.

Or when the world was being invaded by darkness from another dimension.

Or hell..we don't even have to go back that far.

What about the goddamn Dark Signers who were about to turn the planet into Hell?

I mean, if the Aesir are trying to argue that THEY are the better qualified heroes, then well...they have a pretty piss poor track record of answering the call, don't they?

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

I mean, if the Aesir are trying to argue that THEY are the better qualified heroes, then well...they have a pretty piss poor track record of answering the call, don't they?

Well, as Ragna said, their cards grew on trees so they obviously weren't ripe for the picking while all that crap was going on!

I hated Team Ragnarok and everything they brought to the table so much.

Originally Posted by Heather

Well, as Ragna said, their cards grew on trees so they obviously weren't ripe for the picking while all that crap was going on!

I hated Team Ragnarok and everything they brought to the table so much.

They couldn't have at least had stone tablets or something? Even Rainbow Dragon was in a stone tablet before Pegasus made it into a card.

Technically if you consider this series started with the principle that a pre-Incan Star Dragon God chose five people to face -supposedly- five other people holding the power of demons taking the form of Incan stuff, a time-travelling quartet doesn't exactly fit context either. And I hate Yoshida for deciding suddenly that magic wasn't good enough for his series. It had to be 'THE SCIENCE'!

As for the Aesir, I hate them for whatever idiot who designed them not bothering with any sort of research regarding Thor and Loki (beyond, apparently, Thor having a big hammer called Mjollnir and Loki being half-giant), and for being shoehorned into the plot for no reason other than GODS VS DRAGONS, to quote the 4Kids commercial of Thor's Crotchness death. Only Odin makes any mythological sense for crying out loud, and it's nearly impossible to get Odin wrong!

But yes, aside from Dragosix's reasons, following the last arc of 5D's, I have another big issue with Yoshida, his attempts to homage other series which quite blatantly fall flat on their face, not least of which is Limit Over Accel Synchro. Hm. TTGL. One of the Gundams, I believe, but can't remember which. Possibly Kamen Rider Double if you count the movie with KR Eternal. God knows how many other series have the hero suddenly glow gold and get a stronger mech/form/card.

Also. He's a troll. Episode 149 forever etched that in my head.

I think honestly? Yoshida is the anime equivalent of Director Michael F-ing Bay. He works best when you don't question, you don't think, you just sit and watch the pretty lights. The instant you start to think, his whole method falls apart because the writing used to justify the pretty lights is so utterly appalling, his characters are so flat by all rights they should topple over, and he somehow -still- manages to succeed enough that the higher-ups feel compelled to keep him writing this ****.

Are there good points? Well, I fanboy slightly over the mythological references and symbolism. I do get some of them and they are quite nice when they occur, like the whole Gleipnir used to search Fenrir thing indirectly referencing Norse Mythology with Fenrir breaking out of Gleipnir at Ragnarok. And some of the plot does have its good moments, Doma was quite interesting in its own twisted way, 5D's Season 3 had some genuinely good moments like Team Taiyo. The problem is that those moments are essentially islands in a sea of mediocrity and ultimately they can't make up for the rest of the crap.

Originally Posted by Ragna

Well, for starters... they grew on freaking trees.

Originally Posted by Heather

Well, as Ragna said, their cards grew on trees so they obviously weren't ripe for the picking while all that crap was going on!

I hated Team Ragnarok and everything they brought to the table so much.

Sh*t, PPL I CAN'T STOP laughing.
This is soo good, despite the spoiler.

The point Mako was making. Probably is why give them that kinda of background(when its an obvious mistake considering the previous plot even only of its own series). And not give any more sensible reason for the same action.

But who am I go suggest such fan theories. I haven't even watched these eps.

But DAMN about the "ripe for the picking" cards XD.

Originally Posted by Digidramon

One of the Gundams, I believe, but can't remember which. Possibly Kamen Rider Double if you count the movie with KR Eternal. God knows how many other series have the hero suddenly glow gold and get a stronger mech/form/card.

I think G Gundam is what you're looking for:

Originally Posted by Digidramon

Technically if you consider this series started with the principle that a pre-Incan Star Dragon God chose five people to face -supposedly- five other people holding the power of demons taking the form of Incan stuff, a time-travelling quartet doesn't exactly fit context either. And I hate Yoshida for deciding suddenly that magic wasn't good enough for his series. It had to be 'THE SCIENCE'!

Thsi reminds me of the crack theory that in the original timeline it was Yusei who fought the Crimson Devil and lost, and that's who Z-One was. XD

You shouldn't be suprised, though. The moment Yoshida altered Yliaster from the star-gazing cult to... an old guy, his three robots, and their time machine, it was over. lol

As far as why the Aesir didn't help with the Dark Signers, I think that was well explained as the signers being destined to stop the dark signers.

The Nordic Gods were aware of the threat and began "growing" long before Z-One's sent the Tenors in to create the circuit. There's no reason why they shouldn't have tried to help out in the past series if they are what they say they are, except for dumb writing and last minute inclusion into the plot.