Thread: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

Well, I do like to think that if they tried to step in during the Pharoah's destiny and challenge the Illisionary Gods for the right to stop Zork... It would not have ended well for them...

Cards have come from weirder places. Come on, meteorites?

At the very least, the cards from space in GX made slightly more sense, because they were PRINTED before being blasted off into space.

Originally Posted by Ragna

Well, I do like to think that if they tried to step in during the Pharoah's destiny and challenge the Illisionary Gods for the right to stop Zork... It would not have ended well for them...

What about the Orichalcos God? I doubt the Sangenshin would have had a problem with them helping out with that.

The Sangenshin didn't need any help dealing with the Orichalchos God.

Yeah, but the Aesir essentially refuse to cooperate with any other "good force" and will challenge them to battle for the right to take on the big bad.

... Not the best plan in the world. lol

I will say that Yoshida seemed to have at least tried to give them a purpose with Bifrost. Other than that.........

Although it is hilarious that their being a "last minute insertion" is pretty much proven when they aren't listed among the teams Yusei had to face in order to fight Team New World/Aporia. Especially when the reason for that duel was to see who's worthy enough to face New World.

What about that Cards of Darkness subplot that just withered up and died when Team Catastrophe got written out of the show? Did Yoshida intend for something more to happen with that, but it just got sidelined?

Well people have already stated most of the reasons as to why I "dislike" Yoshida's writing but I still need to do my thing (and I'll feel left out of the fun if I don't ) so here goes:

A) He is extremely sexist. By this I mean he either shafts the female characters whenever he takes over as head writer (ie. Aki from 5D's) in favour of the male characters, or if he begins to write his own series, he makes the female characters blatantly useless (ie. Kotori from ZEXAL). Also, it is quite rare for a female character to defeat a male character in a duel whenever he is in charge, especially the protagonist (Yuuma VS. Cat). Even though Yuuma is supposed to be a crappy duelist without Astral, he still manages to defeat her in a duel. It just so happens that his opponent was female and Cat got the first one shot episode of ZEXAL. Plus, I get really sick and tired of the females looking all worried and repeating the protagonist's name like a freakin pokemon! What's that about? And then he has the nerve to make Astral say "Observation: Yuuma still doesn't understand the thoughts of females." Well no wonder!!

B) His characters are either cliche or unrealistic. In 5D's, Yoshida took over starting in the Dark Signer arc. In the first arc, we are introduced to pretty interesting characters with their own internal flaws that are obviously set up for them to overcome later on (ie. Yuusei/Ruka/Aki/etc). After that though, it all became about blah blah, saving the world, blah. Character depth and good story writing were replaced with neat designs, dangerous situations, and HOLY CRAP THAT EBG IS HUGGGE!! Like someone pointed out before, probably the only reason why this arc looked good was because Yoshida couldn't really change much from what Tomioka set up for us. And don't even get me started in the arc after that. In ZEXAL, we not only get the cliche shonen hero type, but he is also unrealistically dumb. And we're supposed to accept him into our anime watching. We're supposed to like and care for him as a character. Sorry Yoshida ... I DON'T!!

C) He also has unnecessarily confusing plot lines. Such as ... the arcs after the Dark Signers story. Major plot holes appeared and a lot of unanswered questions arose. Characters were never really fleshed out properly. Making a 6th signer dragon, compromising the integrity and the sense of FIVE D's. And last but not least, a useless plot twist. A big reveal about Z-ONE that changed nothing except maybe trashing the series' last shred of dignity. It's stories like these that make me wonder if either 1) Yoshida makes his stories up on the spot, or 2) He doesn't care about storytelling in Yugioh because the cards will sell and he'll get paid either way. Was NAS really concerned about making a protagonist the villain in a Yugioh show? Or does Yoshida actually think he's being clever with this god forsaken twist? It's either those, or he's just evil enough to want to troll everyone for no reason whatsoever. Another thing, why does he always recycle the "heart of darkness" concept? Once is nice but every single time it gets annoying! It's sad though because he really does have interesting concepts ... but he always fraks them up.

More questions: How in the world did Yoshida pass his creative writing classes in high school (if he even took them at all)? And why is he so well received in Japan? Are they really getting something in the story that we're not? Or does Yoshida have some sort of ability to brainwash people to make them his zombies that will praise anything he does? Anyway, that's my little rant on Yoshida. I might add more to the list if I think of any but whatever.

inb4 tl;dr


I always get a chuckle at the whole world-is-a-card thing. But don't worry, it was just a metaphor. I think.

Anyway, I don't necessarily hate Yoshida, despite all his flaws, because I guess part of me is the AttentionDeficitOohShiny guy or something, lol.

Now I know I'm gonna get lynched here, but...

I pretty much liked the W.R.G.P. from start to finish. Team Ragnorak were Big Lipped Alligator Characters (for lack of a better term), but I genuinely enjoyed their three gods, or at least the concept of them. Yes, there were asspulls, but I kind of enjoyed seeing Crow and Yusei struggle for the win (or for the tie in Crow's case, I guess) If you guys remember, I voted the Team Ragnorak duel as my favorite in the poll a while back

The Team New World battle wasn't quite what was I expecting. I was thinking more along the lines of what Believe in Nexus [kind of] showed, maybe Jack vs. Jose, Crow (or Aki) vs. Lucciano and Yusei vs. Placido. I wouldn't have minded the team losing here as long as they got revenge battles up on the cradle...

I kinda wish Paradox came back on the Arc Cradle or something. I mean, Aporia came back from the scrap heap twice, but Paradox just got his ass replaced. The three-on-one with Aporia was cool, but at the same time it felt kinda mushed-up and random to me. It seems like the three of them were just together because of time/space/villain constraints. Crow and Aki too, to a lesser extent. Yusei was the only guy to get a solo battle, what a suprise.

At the same time, I don't really like two or three-on-one battles where the villain gets no advantage. Because there's kind of an implication that one hero isn't strong enough to beat the villain on his/her own, no? I could understand Rua, but Aki or Crow or Jack not really being strong enough to take out the Big Bad individually kinda puzzles me, you know?

For whatever reason, NotYusei!Z-One and Yusei beating Jack didn't inspire as much RAGE and ZETSUBOU and APATHY in me as it should. I never really liked the idea of Yusei being a destructive, assholish (as we see with manipulations of his fellow survivors), robo-shrimp, as justified as it might be. Plus, being a Yusei fanboy, I kind of like seeing him beat Jack. Really, the only thing that broke the Willing Suspension of Disbelief for me was High-And-Low.

inb4 Valkaris, Detective, dragosix, Mako or someone else or someone else brutally deconstructs everything I just said and accuses me of trying to duel vicariously through Yusei.

But yeah, Aki, Ruka, and Sherry sidelining =


Like already has been said, Yoshida's symbolism and culture is prety excellent in my opinion, stuffs like Aporia/Grannel and the references to Biology, etc.

And that's kinda it. I guess my opinions go against the fandom grain on a lot of stuff, but I agree with you guys on a lot of points too, and I always like to think about the What Could Have Been.

P.S. - I kinda got off topic, didn't I?

Originally Posted by Austin21926

inb4 tl;dr


I always get a chuckle at the whole world-is-a-card thing. But don't worry, it was just a metaphor. I think.

Anyway, I don't necessarily hate Yoshida, despite all his flaws, because I guess part of me is the AttentionDeficitOohShiny guy or something, lol.

Now I know I'm gonna get lynched here, but...

I pretty much liked the W.R.G.P. from start to finish. Team Ragnorak were Big Lipped Alligator Characters (for lack of a better term), but I genuinely enjoyed their three gods, or at least the concept of them. Yes, there were asspulls, but I kind of enjoyed seeing Crow and Yusei struggle for the win (or for the tie in Crow's case, I guess) If you guys remember, I voted the Team Ragnorak duel as my favorite in the poll a while back

The Team New World battle wasn't quite what was I expecting. I was thinking more along the lines of what Believe in Nexus [kind of] showed, maybe Jack vs. Jose, Crow (or Aki) vs. Lucciano and Yusei vs. Placido. I wouldn't have minded the team losing here as long as they got revenge battles up on the cradle...

I kinda wish Paradox came back on the Arc Cradle or something. I mean, Aporia came back from the scrap heap twice, but Paradox just got his ass replaced. The three-on-one with Aporia was cool, but at the same time it felt kinda mushed-up and random to me. It seems like the three of them were just together because of time/space/villain constraints. Crow and Aki too, to a lesser extent. Yusei was the only guy to get a solo battle, what a suprise.

At the same time, I don't really like two or three-on-one battles where the villain gets no advantage. Because there's kind of an implication that one hero isn't strong enough to beat the villain on his/her own, no? I could understand Rua, but Aki or Crow or Jack not really being strong enough to take out the Big Bad individually kinda puzzles me, you know?

For whatever reason, NotYusei!Z-One and Yusei beating Jack didn't inspire as much RAGE and ZETSUBOU and APATHY in me as it should. I never really liked the idea of Yusei being a destructive, assholish (as we see with manipulations of his fellow survivors), robo-shrimp, as justified as it might be. Plus, being a Yusei fanboy, I kind of like seeing him beat Jack. Really, the only thing that broke the Willing Suspension of Disbelief for me was High-And-Low.

inb4 Valkaris, Detective, dragosix, Mako or someone else or someone else brutally deconstructs everything I just said and accuses me of trying to duel vicariously through Yusei.

But yeah, Aki, Ruka, and Sherry sidelining =


Like already has been said, Yoshida's symbolism and culture is prety excellent in my opinion, stuffs like Aporia/Grannel and the references to Biology, etc.

And that's kinda it. I guess my opinions go against the fandom grain on a lot of stuff, but I agree with you guys on a lot of points too, and I always like to think about the What Could Have Been.

P.S. - I kinda got off topic, didn't I?

I would argue that Z-One was assholish to his friends (all of whom were robots by the way - robots that were exact copies} because it was the only way that he could carry through with his goals and, in my opinion setup Yusei so he could make the world better. I have said it before, I'll say it again, I believe yusei is the kind of person that has to be pushed to do anything/better himself as a person. I believe that Z-One, knowing Yusei, understood that the only way yusei would go through with it was to paint himself completely as the badguy so that Yusei would push with all he had and discover a higher state of mind that would allow him to save the future.

...and don't worry, you want get attacked here.

But what do you actually like about his writing? As far as I can tell, its the fact he can mythology/symbolism drop aplenty.

So... Yoshida played InFamous?

Originally Posted by Austin21926

For whatever reason, NotYusei!Z-One and Yusei beating Jack didn't inspire as much RAGE and ZETSUBOU and APATHY in me as it should. I never really liked the idea of Yusei being a destructive, assholish (as we see with manipulations of his fellow survivors), robo-shrimp, as justified as it might be.

Speaking of ZONE =/= Yusei, now that I think about it, it feels odd that Yoshida didn't go for the more poetic idea of Yusei being both the hero and villain. It just seems like he'd be a sucker for that kind of stuff.

Originally Posted by dragosix

I would argue that Z-One was assholish to his friends (all of whom were robots by the way - robots that were exact copies} because it was the only way that he could carry through with his goals and, in my opinion setup Yusei so he could make the world better. I have said it before, I'll say it again, I believe yusei is the kind of person that has to be pushed to do anything/better himself as a person. I believe that Z-One, knowing Yusei, understood that the only way yusei would go through with it was to paint himself completely as the badguy so that Yusei would push with all he had and discover a higher state of mind that would allow him to save the future.

Pretty good point. But Yusei wasn't always like that. Leaving Satelite and fighting the Dark Signers he pretty much did without being prodded (the first one, naturally) We can chalk that up to the usual Character Derailment, I guess.

...and don't worry, you won't [fixed] get attacked here.

lol, thank you. But that part was more joking than anything else

But what do you actually like about his writing? As far as I can tell, its the fact he can mythology/symbolism drop aplenty.

Yeah. It's mainly the symbolism. The whole Da'at ass thing, for instance, really struck me. The research, and willingness to insert religious stuffs like that, pretty cool. Doesn't strike me a something a dub writer(s) would do, at any rate.

I also like the battles, aesthetically, under Yoshida's pen. For instance, Thor and Odin being very engaging with their weapons, Glow-yTentacleRape!Absorption, or Shooting Star Dragon jet planing the crap outta Wisel and Grannel. Of course, considering the non-Yoshida points of the franchise have just as epic, if not epic-er battles, I guess that's a moot point :/

I'm still upset we didn't see more of prodigy!Ruka. Granted, she probably still is, but given her on-screen record and the Rule of Perception, I dunno.

Yusei did leave Satellite and he did battle the Dark Signers only after being provoked.

It took Yusei a while to leave Satellite because he had to build a D-Wheel, but he only did so because he wanted to get Stardust back from Jack, and settle their score. He only entered the Fortune Cup because of his friends being captured.

The Dark Signers were going to destroy Satellite and kill EVERYTHING. If that's not being prodded, I don't know what is...

Oh and that's another thing I didn't like. How Yusei abandoned his hometown glory for Satellite and became all about Neo Domino City in the Yliaster arc. I mean, I know he's not just going to let the city be destroyed, but the way he talks about it makes it look like he just doesn't care about Satellite anymore... It's odd because he never had ANY intentions of staying in Neo Domino before. He even told his friends in Satellite that he wasn't "leaving" he was "going" when they asked if he was really going to leave. It's just stupid.

...Which brings me to Rally, Nerve, Taka, and Blitz. WTF, Yoshida?

Originally Posted by Ragna

...Which brings me to Rally, Nerve, Taka, and Blitz. WTF, Yoshida?

Who? You mean those four random guys that cheered Yusei on in the final duel? They were never important in any way in the story. Especially the girly one. /sarcasm

Anyways, it is kinda strange that Yusei transformed from a patriot of Satellite (which happened due to living there for eighteen years) to a patriot of Neo Domino City over the course of six months. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that Yusei thinks of Satellite and NDC as Neo Domino City together.

Originally Posted by Ragna

Yusei did leave Satellite and he did battle the Dark Signers only after being provoked.

It took Yusei a while to leave Satellite because he had to build a D-Wheel, but he only did so because he wanted to get Stardust back from Jack, and settle their score. He only entered the Fortune Cup because of his friends being captured.

The Dark Signers were going to destroy Satellite and kill EVERYTHING. If that's not being prodded, I don't know what is...

Oh and that's another thing I didn't like. How Yusei abandoned his hometown glory for Satellite and became all about Neo Domino City in the Yliaster arc. I mean, I know he's not just going to let the city be destroyed, but the way he talks about it makes it look like he just doesn't care about Satellite anymore... It's odd because he never had ANY intentions of staying in Neo Domino before. He even told his friends in Satellite that he wasn't "leaving" he was "going" when they asked if he was really going to leave. It's just stupid.

...Which brings me to Rally, Nerve, Taka, and Blitz. WTF, Yoshida?

You got me with him participating in the Fortune Cup and battling the Dark Signers, but as for him leaving Satelite, I meant more of the sense in that he wanted to do it and wasn't directly prodded, instead of leaving well enough alone like the others suggested. Granted, with Rally getting the chip and the stuff surrounding it, I guess that idea went pretty much out the window.

Yeah, about the abandoned friends thing, it's like the writers actually went out of their way not to show them until final flashback special montage time.

One thing that makes me curious was, despite the disappearance of all the social issues and class warfare and stuff, the writers still bothered to show economic pains, i.e. episode 69. Even that was only focused on for one episode, though.

And another thing was the discrepancy between injuries. Jack and Crow get injured, but generally can still fight on as the plot requires (i.e. - Team Catastrophe or providing moral support in episode 136) but Aki, for example, gets hit once and is conviently coma'd. Imagine how awesome it would've been seeing her fight with the others against the Diablo. But I like to think this has to do more with Aki's VA getting married and Crow appealing better to boys then actual sexism on Yoshida's point. Maybe I'm just in denial?

Originally Posted by Ragna

Oh and that's another thing I didn't like. How Yusei abandoned his hometown glory for Satellite and became all about Neo Domino City in the Yliaster arc. I mean, I know he's not just going to let the city be destroyed, but the way he talks about it makes it look like he just doesn't care about Satellite anymore... It's odd because he never had ANY intentions of staying in Neo Domino before. He even told his friends in Satellite that he wasn't "leaving" he was "going" when they asked if he was really going to leave. It's just stupid.

...Which brings me to Rally, Nerve, Taka, and Blitz. WTF, Yoshida?

Which brings me to my point about Yoshida turning our heroes into paper thin substitutes in terms of personality that there was a point where people supported the villains or the WRGP opponents.

The whole social structure post 64 is absolute bull. You're telling me that Satellite was completely rebuilt and all prejudice about its citizens was wiped away in a matter of a half year? Sorry I don't buy that.

Originally Posted by Austin21926

And another thing was the discrepancy between injuries. Jack and Crow get injured, but generally can still fight on as the plot requires (i.e. - Team Catastrophe or providing moral support in episode 136) but Aki, for example, gets hit once and is conviently coma'd. Imagine how awesome it would've been seeing her fight with the others against the Diablo. But I like to think this has to do more with Aki's VA getting married and Crow appealing better to boys then actual sexism on Yoshida's point. Maybe I'm just in denial?

Even stranger is how during her driving practices she took nastier spills and wasn't scratched up at all (Rule of Funny or not) and that her powers kept bouncing back from being not okay to use because of her past, to disappeared and making a goddamn point about that she doesn't need them again, to working just fine again near the end of the series.

Originally Posted by sd2000

Who? You mean those four random guys that cheered Yusei on in the final duel? They were never important in any way in the story. Especially the girly one. /sarcasm

Anyways, it is kinda strange that Yusei transformed from a patriot of Satellite (which happened due to living there for eighteen years) to a patriot of Neo Domino City over the course of six months. The only possible explanation I can come up with is that Yusei thinks of Satellite and NDC as Neo Domino City together.

I was going to say the same thing.
I think that with the construction of Daedalous Bridge with that ring as symbol of their union (Satellite and NDC) they became one so when Yuusei said he'll protect the city he was meaning the whole city including Satellite.

As for the third season, as Austin, I liked it very much with the exception of the continuation in plot at the begining and when the WRGP started it took so long to finish one match.

Even if Zone =/=Yuusei was crazy, and mind screwing I think it was Ok, Yuusei not being that cruel being with his friends (even if they were memories) was relieving.

As for Nerve, Blitz, Taka and Rally being put on a bus... we could make speculations on how that happened, because its not like Yuusei leave them without notice, since at the end Rally was happy to see Yuusei again even if he didn't see him and no one seemed to be mad or anything.

I think that Yuusei living with Jack and Crow was the cause they didn't appeared, maybe they got a place to live and were informed by Yuusei that he will live with Jack and Crow during the preparations of the WRGP?

(tbh, the only one I really missed of them was Rally)

Originally Posted by YYugi

Even if Zone =/=Yuusei was crazy, and mind screwing I think it was Ok, Yuusei not being that cruel being with his friends (even if they were memories) was relieving.

I always hate it when people say why they didn't mind the fact that Z-One wasn't Yusei and cite the way Z-One treated the memories of his friends, because it makes it seem like what Z-One was doing was wrong and Yusei would never do that. Yusei may have done that, we will never know, but Z-One practically was Yusei, therefore Yusei certainly must have been capable of treating his friends like that - he just didn't. That does not mean he couldn't have. Besides, as said before, I doubt from Z-One's point of view he was actually being cruel to his friends. We see that throughout the entire Aporia Duel and even before that he wants Aporia to stand down, it is breaking him to have to treat his friends like he is. However, as I posted already. Yusei needs to be pushed to do anything. Z-One, I think, believed he had to come across as someone he knew yusei wouldn't care about and had enough of a reason to want to stop in order to actually get to a point where he could save the future. All of his plan set himself up to lose to Yusei, he just needed that one final push to make sure - when he found out the truth - that he wouldn't hold anything back. Z-One was just saying things to get yusei angry, his remorse at Aporia was evident that he cared deeply for his friends. I don't think he was being cold hearted at all. None of them were, they had all lived painfully long and he was now just doing what needed to be done to save the world.

Which leads me onto a crack theory. Z-One actually was Yusei and lied about being someone else because when the revelation happened he realised that Yusei wouldn't actually be able to do what was needed in order to save the world. I am saying the scenes we were shown and the story we were told were false. The computer on the side of his face, was used as memory storage.

But that is a topic for another thread.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

The super secret society that's existed since forever and is the number one source of all the major world occurrences in the world of YGO.

Here's the thing about this. If a good writer was trying to execute such a plot, it could be damn good. If you stop and think about the world and how it operates, such a thing could very well be possible. Controlling the stock market, using bribes and other dirty measures to control politics around the world within... creating disasters intentionally that suck nations into full wars, etc. Even the "controlling history" aspect makes a bit of sense. If you see someone who is doing something that is changing the world in a way that doesn't suit your own desires (John F. Kennedy? Martin Luther King?) they can easily be eliminated if you have enough people. It's also quite possible to infiltrate organizations and have them act as spies from within.

The problem is that Yoshida had Pegasus, AKA Mr. Happy Pants, dish it all to us in a 5 minute long history lesson that we forget 5 minutes later and then just made us believe Dartz was doing everything I said above with no specific examples.

And don't get me started on Z-one's hax. If they wrote it as him being a Psychic Duelist in which he enhanced through machines, I could see it working a bit better. But... it's all just fed to us and we are forced to believe every word of it.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

3.) The magical duel monsters world where Key Maces, Shining Friendships and Dream Sprites play happily until something HORRIBLE happens and they need our help!

LOL... that made me laugh quite a bit. And it's so damn true!

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

4.) The evil villains who play YGO and ride motorcycles to boot. Dude. They mean business, I mean look! They're on motorcycles!

LOL again... again, so true.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

5.) The darkness of the heart... It all boils down to fcvking darkness of the heart every. Damn. Time.

6.) The villain just HAS to go on a spiel about how mankind is a threat to the planet, creates their own destruction with war, hate, etc, and really, they aren't THAT bad compared to foolish humans. EVERY villain pulls this. From Dartz, to Aporia, to Z-ONE.

Again, I say that issues revolving around "the evil of humanity" can be very well done if written right. I mean, let's face the facts. More than half of the world is some ******* looking to stomp over someone for their own personal gain.

The problem is that Yoshida just has the villain repeat the same shit over and over. Never mind how much in Doma, but in 5D's alone, the arcs went like this, starting with Goodwin:

Goodwin: When you die, you die alone, *******. Suck it. Relationships and bonds suck and so do you. And I want to be god for some randomly unexplored reason.
Yusei: I'MA FIRIN' MAH LASER!
Goodwin: Well, I stand corrected. Bonds are awesome and you obviously won with the power of friendship and trust.

Then...

Ghost: Synchros suck! Blah, blah, blah. Evolution sucks, blah blah blah.
Yusei: Cannot... Synchro...

Yusei: Jack, let's find a way to not Synchro so we can beat the Ghosts.
Bruno: Hey dude, just Synchro a Synchro and it's WIN!
Yusei: You are so right, dude! Bro-fist me!

Then...

Placido: Humans suck and they dance like bees because they are stupid and helpless.
Yusei: Nope. FIRIN' MAH LASER.
Placido: Dope!

Jose: Humans are like ants that elephants step on because they suck. You suck. You are evil. You also played a children's card game so much that the only energy system we have randomly responded to the darkness of your hearts again for no adequately explored reason and created evil robots that killed my parents and my girlfriend that I now use in my deck for some strange, ridiculous reason. Did I mention that humans suck and they destroyed the world? Which gives us the right to kill other humans for some reason?
Yusei: Did you say something? I was listening to a new song I illegally downloaded.
Jose: Then I will just show you and your friends the future that was destroyed!
Yusei: That's so photoshopped. I don't believe your words. For some reason after episode 26, I went from being a stoic man who only cared about protecting my friends to some arrogant ********* who won't listen to anyone else and has is like Naruto, trying to become a Jesus of the land of Domino.
Jose: Why... Why won't you listen to us?!

Later

Aporia: I am despair. Despair, zetsubou, despairrrrrr!

Finally

Z-one: I am you Yusei. But I am not.
Yusei: So... Whatever happened to that idea Ghost talked about evolution sucking and whatnot? Because you sure as hell look like someone who has evolved quite a bit.
Z-one: Yusei... that conversation never happened because I erased it.

~~~~~~~~~~

All humor aside, did you notice the points I made about all the shit he lays out and then alters, contradicts and tosses away later down the line? And more than anything, how they basically say the same thing over and over and Yusei and company reacting surprised every single time?

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

7.) And the ending always just...falls flat on its face in terms of execution. From that bizarre, and I'm pretty sure illegal combo Yugi did to somehow beat infinity by multiplying infinity times two with his random Legend of Heart Knights that for some bizarre reason looked like Yugi, Jou and Kaiba....to Z-ONE being a random cosplayer, Clustering Wishes crap and....that final duel between Jack and Yusei....

Hell, as much as I loved that Junk Warrior finisher, I think we can all agree that that ending was total ********. Yusei, as a character, should have lost and that would have completed his "development".

Originally Posted by Ragna

To reinforce Mako's post, this is how the DOMA arc, the Dark Signer arc, the Society of Light arc, and the Tenor arc all played out.

Society of Light was not headed by Yoshida, though he did work on it.

Random Mook shows up and is defeated by the main character. (Yugi vs. Gurimo/ Judai vs. Edo's draft deck/ Yusei vs. Dick Pitt and Ghost)
Head villains watch from their evil lair. (Dartz's temple/ Saiou's light place/ Rudger's hideout/ The Tenors... whateve that was)
The real villains show up and have a duel with the main character. (Raphael, Edo's real deck, Kiryu)
They defeat the hero, but he is saved from the consequences by some outside force. (Yugi/ Judai's gentle darkness/ Motorcycle wreck)
The hero now has to go through some soul searching to get over the previous battle. (Atem vs. Yugi/ Judai's obtaining the Spacians/ Yusei getting Atlus punched!/ Accel Synchro)
One of the side characters has some kind of love story with the enemy. (Jonouchi vs Mai/ Jack vs. Carly/ Yusei and Bruno. =P)
One of the side characters is held responsible for an enemy's relative being killed. (Kaiba vs. Amelda/ Aki vs. Misty/ Yusei and Zero Reverse... for some reason...)
When the time comes for the final battle, it's always multiple heroes vs. the big bad. (Dartz vs. Yugi and Kaiba/ Saiou vs. the Edo-Judai boss rush/ Godwin vs. Satisfaction Trio)
The villain is defeated, and atones for his sins before going away. (Dartz/ Godwin)

Shit... You laid that out perfectly. Don't forget to add Z-one and even Aporia/Bruno atoning for their sins to that list. And Yusei VS Z-one WAS multiple people because he used their cards.

Originally Posted by Ragna

What Yoshida did to the Memory arc is the single greatest black mark on Yoshida's recornd. All the Team Taiyous in the world couldn't make up for that, in my opinion.

Yes, total BS.

Originally Posted by Ragna

Atsuhiro Tomioka was called in at the start of 5D's and was the head for 26 episodes. After he left to be the head writer for Pokemon, which left Yoshida in the head spot yet again.

Why the hell did he leave for freaking Pokemon?! Imagine how the Dark Signer arc would have gone if he was still in charge. And what other plots would have occurred. And how Ruka and Aki would have been treated!

Originally Posted by Ragna

Cohen, advertising cards is a pretty bad reason to be sexist. It's not like one or more of Team Ragnarok couldn't have been a chick, and Aki runs PLANTS for God's sake.

So damn true.

Ruka also had Fairies, for lord's sake! My deck for her I made for my fanfic blew away the shit they gave her in the anime. Ruka is supposed to be a prodigy. Aki is supposed to be a very skilled Duelist who drove Yusei into the ground in the Fortune Cup... and yet they are made to appear as amateurs later on.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

He's been doing this crap before Konami's sudden "zeal" to advertise. He shafted Mai in Doma in almost every way, although to his credit, he did make Mai a pretty badass, dangerous duelist. But other than that, she pretty much went straight to hell and in the end we're left with a sadly tattered relationship.

Yes, if by badass you mean someone who became a total ***** and completely ruined her previously established character development.

Originally Posted by Makoeyes987

....Well, if these guys are the "chosen ones" by the Aesir, and it's their job to save the world.

...Where the fcvk have the Aesir been during the 101 other calamities that befell the world that other people had to step up and fix?

I didn't see Odin, Thor, or Loki trying to stop the world when Zorc was about to curbstomp it. Or when Dartz wanted to take a stab at reseting it to zero.

Or when Saiou wanted to burn up the world and envelope it in space radiation.

Or when the world was being invaded by darkness from another dimension.

Or hell..we don't even have to go back that far.

What about the goddamn Dark Signers who were about to turn the planet into Hell?

I mean, if the Aesir are trying to argue that THEY are the better qualified heroes, then well...they have a pretty piss poor track record of answering the call, don't they?

Haha, all good points.

I personally have no problem with them or Ragnarok. And I actually like them a lot. My only problem is quite a large one, though. As Mako said, they had no mention ANYWHERE in YGO before that and probably never will again. Their Rune Eyes had no damn place in anything relating to the series or the Signers...

To finish this off, let's touch once again on how he's treated the girls...

Anzu: Went from being the "voice" of the group to the typical girl crushing and relying on Yugi all the time.

Mai: Went from overcoming her wanting to be by herself and then joining the gang to suddenly blaming them for everything Malik did and being a total *****. And then realized how stupid it all was in the end. And rides off, us having THAT as our last impression of her.

Rebecca: Okay, he didn't really do too much bad to her. Though the KC Grand Prix writer still did a better job with her than he did.

Mana: Admittedly, I liked her anime counter more than the manga, only because she got much more screentime. And she actually DID shit.

Asuka: Went from being a female badass who could support herself to being weakkneed over Judai.

Rei: Did virtually nothing. I can't blame Yoshida for this entirely, because he didn't write season 3. Then, though, she did even LESS in season 4, to HIS credit, lol.

Aki: Went from the badass problem-ridden girl to a giddy cheerleader virtually overnight. This is one I took so long to finally agree on. For so long I denied it, but looking back on the series from start to finish, I can finally admit how abrupt and unrealistic this change was.

Ruka: Was supposedly a prodigy Duelist better than her brother. She was set up in the start of the series with having her own social anxieties to overcome. This could have all been worked with so well, but was all dropped by Yoshida in favor of a weak and frail sister who needed to be protected by her brother. Sure, she could have still been frail and weak with the first scenario and still had much better depth and development. But this is Yoshida.

Sherry: Introduced as someone supposedly important to the plot, than brushed aside like nothing.

Kotori: While cute and appealing, at least to me, she is obviously the cheerleader and having no real importance to the plot.

I did forget about Aki's VA getting married, but still, that probably wouldn't account for all the time she spent on the sidellines... Or she just had one HELL of a honeymoon.

Asuka started to get the plot shaft in season 3, before Yoshida. Still, her tag duel episodes with Judai were definately her worst ones. =/

Shit... You laid that out perfectly. Don't forget to add Z-one and even Aporia/Bruno atoning for their sins to that list. And Yusei VS Z-one WAS multiple people because he used their cards.

Ha ha, good points. Yeah, I first realized this when I saw how Yusei was reacting to his loss against Kiryu. I was like "This is pretty coo.... hey wait! I've seen this somewhere before..."

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GoldenUmi again.

Originally Posted by GoldenUmi

Why the hell did he leave for freaking Pokemon?! Imagine how the Dark Signer arc would have gone if he was still in charge. And what other plots would have occurred. And how Ruka and Aki would have been treated!

Because its fvcking Pokemon, he is getting paid more to construct a considerably less complicated and simplified plot and characters.

Originally Posted by Starry

Because its fvcking Pokemon, he is getting paid more to construct a considerably less complicated and simplified plot and characters.

His talents are being wasted.

Originally Posted by dragosix

I always hate it when people say wthey didn't mind the fact that Z_One wasn't Yusei and cite the way Z-One treated the memories of his friends. Because it makes it seem like what Z-One was doing was wrong and Yusei would never do that. Yusei may have done that, we will never know, but Z-One practically was Yusei so he was certainly capable. Besides, as said before, I doubt from Z-One's point of view he was actually being cruel to his friends. We see that throughout the entire Aporia Duel and even before that he wants Aporia to stand down, it is breaking him to have to treat his friends like he is. However, as I posted already. Yusei needs to be pushed to do anything. Z-One, I think, believed he had to come across as someone he knew yusei wouldn't care about and had enough of a reason to want to stop in order to actually get to a point where he could save the future. All of his plan set himself up to lose to Yusei, he just needed that one final push to make sure - when he found out the truth - that he wouldn't hold anything back. Z-One was just saying things to get yusei angry, his remorse at Aporia was evident that he cared deeply for his friends. I don't think he was being cold hearted at all. None of them were, they had all lived painfully long and he was now just doing what needed to be done to save the world.

You made a point that I've actually forgot about Zone's duel with Aporia...

But that doesn't change my mind about Zone=/= Yuusei is Ok.

I didn't sticked so much to the idea that he was Yuusei, It would had be cool, but at the same time there was a possibility that he wasn't and I didn't forget it.

Maybe that's why I can accept it now xD

Originally Posted by GoldenUmi

His talents are being wasted.

Well, it's his life, so it's his choice. Also, there are writers as good as or better than Tomioka out there, but it's up to NAS to hire them.

Originally Posted by GoldenUmi

His talents are being wasted.

Ugh you can say that again. Just goes to show you how corrupt money can make a person if they have/want enough of it.

I guess we can take solace in the fact that in an alternate universe (forgive me for borrowing plot points from ZEXAL), Tomioka stayed and wrote the entirety of 5D's and it was the best Yu-Gi-Oh! show ever (even better than the original ... yeah I said it). He would've saved the franchise. And it turns out, Yoshida's a drug dealer/user and gets arrested/sent to prison! How THAT series would've turned out we'll never know (that audience is lucky nonetheless though) ... but I believe in alternate universes and I believe it happens (though theoretically there are infinite alternate universes out there so anything can happen, lol)!

Regardless, who's with me?

Originally Posted by DTheAntihero

Ugh you can say that again. Just goes to show you how corrupt money can make a person if they have/want enough of it.

I guess we can take solace in the fact that in an alternate universe (forgive me for borrowing plot points from ZEXAL), Tomioka stayed and wrote the entirety of 5D's and it was the best Yu-Gi-Oh! show ever (even better than the original ... yeah I said it). He would've saved the franchise. And it turns out, Yoshida's a drug dealer/user and gets arrested/sent to prison! How THAT series would've turned out we'll never know (that audience is lucky nonetheless though) ... but I believe in alternate universes and I believe it happens (though theoretically there are infinite alternate universes out there so anything can happen, lol)!

Regardless, who's with me?

Hmmm, I suppose, but if you twist that concept a little, you could say that in that same universe, you could be a certified public accountant, and I could be a professional engineer, and we'd both be too busy to even think about who's writing which Yu-Gi-Oh! series.

Originally Posted by Digidramon

I think honestly? Yoshida is the anime equivalent of Director Michael F-ing Bay. He works best when you don't question, you don't think, you just sit and watch the pretty lights. The instant you start to think, his whole method falls apart because the writing used to justify the pretty lights is so utterly appalling, his characters are so flat by all rights they should topple over, and he somehow -still- manages to succeed enough that the higher-ups feel compelled to keep him writing this ****.

I came to this thread to say this, I'm both annoyed and enjoyed I was beaten to it.

Originally Posted by ChaosYoshiMage

I came to this thread to say this, I'm both annoyed and enjoyed I was beaten to it.

Join the club. The club is the one solace folks get from the mindscrews, plot twists in plot twists and crazy, confusing storylines that makes up Yoshida's Yu-Gi-Oh.

I like Yoshida's writing. A lot of it works. It just sucks when forced into a Toyetic merchandising series like Yu-Gi-Oh! The Darkness of the Heart concept works out better with Speed Grapher when the whole driving point of most of the plot has to deal with people having their worst personality traits running rampant and turning them into actual monsters (Obsession with Flexibility, Self Worth/Value, Value of one's station over another...)

Just, when you're trying to make a politically, environmentally, and civilly charged thesis tirade on people, it just isn't going to work with Card Games, when the cards are trying to be sold to kids.

The one thing I'll complain though is Dueling had nothing to really do with stopping Momentum in 5D's. And that he really should of had a better solution/tie-in for how card games is related to saving the future.

Imagine how the Dark Signer arc would have gone if he was still in charge. And what other plots would have occurred. And how Ruka and Aki would have been treated!

Who's to say he didn't leave because he couldn't do Dark Signers how he wanted?

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

Who's to say he didn't leave because he couldn't do Dark Signers how he wanted?

In other words, Corporate Interests and Executive Meddling?

Originally Posted by NeoArkadia

Who's to say he didn't leave because he couldn't do Dark Signers how he wanted?

Which supports my theory that he left behind some plotline structures for Yoshida to pick up on, hence the Dark Signer arc didn't really start to show signs of decay and Yoshiding until about halfway through.

If he can't write dark and deep themes without having to either chicken out, burn out or be excutive vetoed, he should have tried something else that doesn't involve going to the lowest common denominator.

What I'd really love to know is how deep the Director, Shueisha, and Konami's hands are in the "Decisions of where the plotline gets to go", so I can decide Yoshida on merit of what he was able to decide and write from there.

If he can't write dark and deep themes without having to either chicken out, burn out or be excutive vetoed, he should have tried something else that doesn't involve going to the lowest common denominator.

Well there is always the benefit of having a steady paycheck when you're in your fifties... but I'd have to agree. I'd rather see more "intelligent-y" stuff from Yoshida.

I wonder if Yoshida would love all this attention we're giving him. Like his writing or hate it, he should be given credit for getting his own thread.

Originally Posted by sd2000

I wonder if Yoshida would love all this attention we're giving him. Like his writing or hate it, he should be given credit for getting his own thread.

There is the logic that is used on badly behaved children that "all attention is good attention" so looking at it that way, Yoshida is probably doing his job correctly because we are all talking about him (a lot).

Originally Posted by GoldenUmi

His talents are being wasted.

Originally Posted by DTheAntihero

Ugh you can say that again. Just goes to show you how corrupt money can make a person if they have/want enough of it.

Woah, what? There is nothing wrong with a writer going for a less stressful job. Besides, children's shows are actually the best place to work at. With Yugioh, it's different in that it's completely merchandise driven and making cards appear sometimes breaks the story. But with something like Pokemon, you can just choose whatever story you want to tell and put the Pokemon in it with not a lot of work.

With something plot heavy like say, Heroes or Lost, you need to carefully plan everything you are going to do. Now, this doesn't mean you plan everything about your series(Lost can attest to that) but it means you need to outline everything you are going to do, because as a show runner, you need to basically write the bullet points that make the rest of the writers take care of individual episodes. It needs a painful amount of detail because you don't have time to write every single episode by yourself, so you basically tell different people what to write.

Now, a children's show? That's much simpler. There is nothing you really NEED to write. The showrunner gives individual writers much more freedom at crafting a story, because most of it is filler. The showrunner feels almost bored with it. He's just a glorified babysitter. But then, that's where magic happens.

Since there is nothing you need to do, you get that wonderful feeling of freedom to just do whatever the hell you want. Like in Pokemon, how the rivals are so freaking developed now, and how every Gym Leader has a personality. That's something the director in question never HAD to do, but his extended plots show that he wants to do.

Not only that, but Pokemon sounds like heaven to me. No writing pressure, all freedom, a pretty decent world to use, only things you need to keep in mind is that you have to keep everything PG. It would be the equivalent of writing for a sitcom here, but with no need to worry about ratings or actors. That's writer heaven right there.

It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of being able to relax and have fun at your job.

...And hell even if he just wanted the extra 10 bucks, what's wrong with that? It's a living!

The sexist stuff, yeah, that $#@! really needs to stop. Although I think Aki's character was doomed from the moment she sniveled out "Help… Me… ; _ ; " to her Savior Yusei in the Fortune Cup just cause he told her that all her problems didn't have to exist instead of acknowledging her hurt and rage. (Nooo, she's not really angry at the world and her parents that totally screwed her over, she's just emotional and needs to learn to be a loving waifu, like all women do!). Aki was doomed from the start.

And I am probably biased, but I don't think Asuka ever degraded as a character. (At least not to the level of Aki) There was season three, but that had everyone get shafted, not just her. She was just fine in Season 4, as she was actually being very reasonable in regards to Judai, who she had an established crush on from pretty much episode 2. (But I'm also a huge Anzu fan, and feel she never degraded either. And as for that whole "friendship speech" business, she was no worse than anyone else. And her talking down to Kaiba after the rooftop battle, was frankly awesome.)


So, stepping into this thread to say that:
I loved the DOMA arc (yes, it was stupid, but it was also AWESOME. And if it wasn't for BERSERKER SOUL I never would have found the Yugioh fandom, so I have to give it props.)

I loved GX Season 4 (some really beautiful development for the characters (that were given any ^^ ) that broke out of a lot of the cliches that almost all high school anime fall for.

And that I loved everything about the Mirai-gumi (Aporia, Antinomy, Paradox and Z-ONE) and their plots and whatnot from 5D's. In fact, it's the only thing I like at all about 5D's. If Z-ONE were Yusei that would have made me actually like Yusei some more, but the fact that he isn't doesn't make me dislike Z-ONE any. In fact, the psychological ramifications about taking on the personality and memories of an undefeatable savior who's never lost… and then losing? That's good stuff.

And frankly, the Darkness of the Heart is a decent archetype story. There are only so many plots that can be told in the world, and while the catch is the same, they often find different ways to approach it. (Dartz's motivations are different from Fujiwara's are different from Z-ONE's.)

So, I'm not going to say that Yoshida is the best Yugioh writer (he certainly isn't) but I cannot hate him for he has penned some of my favorite stories.

(…And I resent the casual fan comment. I believe I, for one, have put enough of myself in this fandom to be seen as more than just a casual fan.)

Originally Posted by Detective

Woah, what? There is nothing wrong with a writer going for a less stressful job.

You seem to be missing the point I made.

If a damn good cop out on the field cuffing the big bads on the streets suddenly decides he wants to go part time and file paperwork, then yes, that is his personal decision and he is entitled to it. But that does not change the fact that his skills as the aforementioned badass cop are no longer being used to where they are at their best.

In other words, that was not a complaint, but simply a statement. Yes, he is able to do whatever the hell he wants to do with himself and neither me or anyone else has the right to complain. However, the fact of the matter is that his writing skills are good enough to be taking series way better than YGO and yet he is working on something as episodic and basic as Pokemon. As a writer, I just feel it's a shame his writing skills are no longer seeing the heights they can achieve.

Given the stuff Ono says at times, I'd say Ono and NAS/Konami have a huge say in things.

As for the plot, given the kind of damage a tiny decision can deal to a series with a more mature target audience(more mature meaning teenagers here), I actually have to say that I don't think it wouldn't have mattered WHO took the plot, it would've been shot to hell. Code Geass turned into a total trainwreck due to one timeslot change(of course, it was always LOLWAT, but it got even more LOLWAT than usual and without nearly as much sexuality or violence/insanity), Gundam 00 had its entire plot+character relations shot to hell due to one movie, and Kamen Rider Kiva(which started fairly emo and dark) got thrown into the mud because the director decided to change the main writer's plot.

Originally Posted by GoldenUmi

You seem to be missing the point I made.

If a damn good cop out on the field cuffing the big bads on the streets suddenly decides he wants to go part time and file paperwork, then yes, that is his personal decision and he is entitled to it. But that does not change the fact that his skills as the aforementioned badass cop are no longer being used to where they are at their best.

In other words, that was not a complaint, but simply a statement. Yes, he is able to do whatever the hell he wants to do with himself and neither me or anyone else has the right to complain. However, the fact of the matter is that his writing skills are good enough to be taking series way better than YGO and yet he is working on something as episodic and basic as Pokemon. As a writer, I just feel it's a shame his writing skills are no longer seeing the heights they can achieve.

I'm not disputing his skills being good enough to take on more advanced series. I'm disputing the claim that writing an episodic series is a waste of his talent.

I don't see him wasting his talent, but rather using it for something else. It's more like the badass cop, instead of using his gun acrobatics to kill criminals, began using his gun acrobatics to bake cakes with bullet holes in them. It's another use of the same skill. His skill isn't being wasted, just used for something else.

Sure if you enjoy peace and harmony you would prefer he stuck to killing criminals, but you can't really say he is wasting his talent with weapons. That doesn't make much sense.

(The original analogy I was going for was a quotation from a really old book involving shooting only green criminals and red criminals, but I think the cake thing is more appropriate here.)

...Also I'd sure as hell pick Pokemon over Zexal right now, plot wise. Yes I went there. I said Pokemon has a better plot than Zexal. I base that on the fact I can watch it with my girlfriend without feeling too stupid, but I have yet to be able to force her to watch a single Zexal episode.

Gonna read this all later cause it looks good, but my crack theory that comforts me about Z-ONE: Big Z actually is Yusei, and he's gone back in time once before. Everything happened the same up until the Not!Yusei reveal, except he actually tells Yusei he's him from the future. Yusei goes "Nope, I don't believe you, you are a liar and a charlatan and obviously your story is false so I shall do nothing to save this fictitious future!" and the world was ruined. So he went back again and this time went "Lulz, I'm not really Yusei". Because his lie was necessary to make Yusei think it was the truth, when his truth was considered by Yusei to be a lie. Cause Yusei is Jesus and would never come back to do such horrible things, derp.

Originally Posted by Detective

I'm not disputing his skills being good enough to take on more advanced series. I'm disputing the claim that writing an episodic series is a waste of his talent.

I don't see him wasting his talent, but rather using it for something else. It's more like the badass cop, instead of using his gun acrobatics to kill criminals, began using his gun acrobatics to bake cakes with bullet holes in them. It's another use of the same skill. His skill isn't being wasted, just used for something else.

Sure if you enjoy peace and harmony you would prefer he stuck to killing criminals, but you can't really say he is wasting his talent with weapons. That doesn't make much sense.

(The original analogy I was going for was a quotation from a really old book involving shooting only green criminals and red criminals, but I think the cake thing is more appropriate here.)

...Also I'd sure as hell pick Pokemon over Zexal right now, plot wise. Yes I went there. I said Pokemon has a better plot than Zexal. I base that on the fact I can watch it with my girlfriend without feeling too stupid, but I have yet to be able to force her to watch a single Zexal episode.

I don't think writing an episodic series is a waste of time, but I do think writing Pokemon is a waste of time... but that's just me. Feel free to interpret that as you like

Well, I believe Tomioka's been with Pokemon actually for a while. ... Looking at it, he's actually been with the franchise since 1997 as a script writer, and became the Series Composer in 2006 with Diamond & Pearl and has been Series Composer since then.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%86%...B7%B3%E5%BA%83

List of other shows he's done the plot running of are:
- ネクスト戦記EHRGEIZ (Next Military History Ehrgeiz)
- AWOL -Absent Without Leave-
- Bikkuriman 2000
- ジバクくん Jibaku-kun (a.k.a. Bucky: The Incredible Kid)
- ゴクドーくん漫遊記 Gokudoo-kun Man'yuki (a.k.a. Jester the Adventurer)
- グラップラー刃牙 Grappler Baki
- テニスの王子様 Prince of Tennis (Ep. 76-101)
- FF：U 〜ファイナルファンタジー:アンリミテッド〜 (Final Fantasy: Unlimited)
- ヴァンドレッド Vandread
- コロッケ! Croket!
- クロノクルセイド Chrono Crusade
- グリーングリーン Green Green
- SAMURAI 7
- モンキーターン Monkey Turn
- トリニティ・ブラッド Trinity Blade
- 魔界戦記ディスガイア Makai Senki Disgaea (Disgaea)
- パンプキン・シザーズ Pumpkin Scissors
- 西の善き魔女 Astraea Testament Nishi-no-Yoki Majyo Astraea Testament (The Good Witch of the West: Astraea Testament)
- Ray The Animation
- ZOMBIE-LOAN
- クリスタル ブレイズ Crystal Blaze (Glass Maiden)
- イナズマイレブン Inazuma Eleven
- イナズマイレブンGO (Inazuma Eleven GO)
- バトルスピリッツ 少年激覇ダン Battle Spirits Shonen Geikha Dan
- バトルスピリッツ ブレイヴ Battle Spirits Brave
- ダンボール戦機 Danbooru Senki
- ケータイ捜査官７ Keetai Sousakan 7 (A Sci-Fi Tokusatsu Series)

Basically, it's probably not just he's being paid for Pokemon, but he basically has is also running properties for Bandai and Level-5 as well. He's a very very busy man. :x

He...handled more than one series at once? Dear god.

Handles.

He currently is in charge of Series Composition for Pokemon Best Wishes, Inazuma Eleven Go, Danbooru Senki, and Battle Spirits Brave. And writes scripts for the anime of Fairy Tail.

Over/Under:

He'll die of overwork sometime around 2012