+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Showing results 101 to 134 of 134

Thread: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

  1. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by kahunyu View Post
    Watch him get involved in Gundam AGE and commit suicide before that.
    So that's one vote for Under then!

  2. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Also, if we're going into an argument for Tomioka vs Yoshida, I'm going to note:

    - Tomioka for the most part seems to write towards children and teenagers, and has had a long time working in the Toyetic Anime and Youth targeted Arenas, with Pokemon being practically one of his first major jobs. I'm not sure as to some of his work, but it seems he has a very wide and diverse work pool that's given him multiple genre experience. This has given him problem enough work experience that by the time he got to 5D's, he knew how to set up a series for both younger and older fans. As Pokemon under his reign seems more periphery hooking based, and with a stronger over arching plot line. (Well, as strong as you can get with the Pokemon anime.

    - Yoshida for the most part on the other hand, has worked on either Sunrise Mecha Anime or various Cerebral/Suspense series. And the more weird shit is either been on Cable or late night television. Unlike Tomioka who has mostly worked with children related work, Yoshida's worked for mostly teenage / Seinen (Older Teen to Middle Age Adult) genre series. When Yu-Gi-Oh! was made, his position as a writer made sense due to the fact Yu-Gi-Oh! dwells on morality and the whole light drowned in darkness thematic. And the Yliaster-WRGP arc and DOMA do show signs of trying to tell more dark cerebral stories. Just. Lol. Card Games.

    - On the other hand, the guy who ran a fair number of DM and the first 3 seasons of GX, Takegami Junki, has been Series Composer for:
    - 鉄拳チンミ Ironfist Chimi (Kung Fu BOy)
    - たいむとらぶる トンデケマン Time Travel Tondekeman (Time Quest)
    - レッドバロン Red Baron
    - 蒼き伝説 シュート! Aoki Densetsu Shoot! (Blue Legend Shoot!)
    - 水色時代 Mizuiro Jidai (Aqua Age/Blue Green Years)
    - ケロケロちゃいむ Kero Kero Chime
    - ビーストウォーズII 超生命体トランスフォーマー Beast Wars II - Super Lifeform Transformer
    - ビーストウォーズネオ 超生命体トランスフォーマー Beast Wars Neo - Super Lifeform Transformer
    - トランスフォーマー カーロボット Transformer Car Robot (Transformers: Robots in Disguise)
    - マーメイドメロディーぴちぴちピッチ Mermaid Melody Pichi Pichi Pitch
    - Gunslinger Girl
    - Naruto
    - 陸奥圓明流外伝 修羅の刻 Mutsuenmeiryuugaiden Shura no Toki
    - M�R Heaven (The M�R Anime)
    - 機動新撰組 萌えよ剣 Kidou Shinsengumi Moeyo Ken
    - 強殖装甲ガイバー Kyoushoku Soukou Gaibaa (Bio-Booster Armor Guyver)
    - 折紙戦士 Origami Senshi (Origami Warriors)
    - 妖怪人間ベム Youkai Ningen Bem (Humanoid Monster Bem) [2006 Series]
    - Naruto Shippuden
    - Hayate no Gotoku! (Hayatethe Combat Butler!)
    - 月面兎兵器ミーナ Getsumento Heiki Mina

    Open, Bermuda Gate!

    #duelacademy_r2 on LJ & irc.darkmyst.org!

    Looking for new players to play Yu-Gi-Oh! Canon Characters or Original Characters.


  3. Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Riding a motorcycle
    Posts
    141
    Group
    Junior Member

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoArkadia View Post
    - Tomioka for the most part seems to write towards children and teenagers, and has had a long time working in the Toyetic Anime and Youth targeted Arenas, with Pok�mon being practically one of his first major jobs. I'm not sure as to some of his work, but it seems he has a very wide and diverse work pool that's given him multiple genre experience. This has given him problem enough work experience that by the time he got to 5D's, he knew how to set up a series for both younger and older fans, as Pok�mon under his reign seems more periphery hooking based, and with a stronger over arching plot line. (Well, as strong as you can get with the Pok�mon anim�.)
    (fixed)

    This. Not to get off-topic, but what's with the Pok�mon anime bashing? I'm as unhappy as the next guy that Tomioka jumped ship from 5Ds but as a member of both fandoms I don't get the bad rep. Like Ark kinda-said, Tomioka did a nice job with the series (Diamond & Pearl happens to be my favorite of the Pok�mon series, and the most well-written, in my opinion)

    Don't tell me you guys are going all NostalgiaFag (our affectionate nickname)-ish here (i.e. - the kind of anim� viewer whose mentality is "OMG KANTO WUZ THE BEST AND EVERYTHING AFTER SUCKS!" or something like that.) Besides, just for the record, Kanto (and Johto), as good as they were, were a bit of a narrative trainwreck at times (although admittely, it's a perfect storm of factors too)(Granted, you could also just hate the anime altogether, which I don't have a reply for)

    I know the Pok�mon anime is just for kids, and it's not the games or the Pok�Spe Manga, but geez, you guys make it sound like it's the worse thing ever ,__,

    I dunno, after seeing you guys analyze Yoshida and the franchise, seeing you just bash Pok�mon like that is bizarre. Granted, this is a Yu-Gi-Oh! forum, but still.

    Anyway, getting back on topic, the ever-changing status of Aki's powers, which Starry hit the nail right on the head on, is probablyone of my biggest gripes (if not the biggest) which Yoshida and his clich�s.
    I'm not getting my Nitro Archer...
    The irony... 'tis delicious.

    PIKACHU!



    Forever a part of Team Yusei!

  4. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin21926 View Post
    (fixed)
    This. Not to get off-topic, but what's with the Pok�mon anime bashing? I'm as unhappy as the next guy that Tomioka jumped ship from 5Ds but as a member of both fandoms I don't get the bad rep. Like Ark kinda-said, Tomioka did a nice job with the series (Diamond & Pearl happens to be my favorite of the Pok�mon series, and the most well-written, in my opinion)

    Don't tell me you guys are going all NostalgiaFag (our affectionate nickname)-ish here (i.e. - the kind of anim� viewer whose mentality is "OMG KANTO WUZ THE BEST AND EVERYTHING AFTER SUCKS!" or something like that.) Besides, just for the record, Kanto (and Johto), as good as they were, were a bit of a narrative trainwreck at times (although admittely, it's a perfect storm of factors too)(Granted, you could also just hate the anime altogether, which I don't have a reply for)
    Because almost every pokemon episode (barring gym challenges, tournaments and very occasional 2/3 parters) have the same essential plot. It's boring to see them retain the status quo and only give it a fresh coat of paint every four or five years. I attempted to watch Best Wishes myself, but it quickly bored me with the cookie cutter plots. While I know it works, it would be nice to see them give anime adaptions of not necessary PokeSpe, but the dozens of other mangas/videogames/alternate stories that aren't just Ranger or Mystery Dungeon (as much as I enjoyed those).

    Anyway from seeing Ark's post, I think Yoshida would work better constructing just a manga, where he has more freedom to do what he pleases.
    Last edited by Starry; 06/30/11 at 05:31 PM.

  5. Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Live in USA.
    Posts
    3,529
    Group
    Moderator
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Austin21926 View Post
    (fixed)

    This. Not to get off-topic, but what's with the Pok�mon anime bashing? I'm as unhappy as the next guy that Tomioka jumped ship from 5Ds but as a member of both fandoms I don't get the bad rep. Like Ark kinda-said, Tomioka did a nice job with the series (Diamond & Pearl happens to be my favorite of the Pok�mon series, and the most well-written, in my opinion)

    Don't tell me you guys are going all NostalgiaFag (our affectionate nickname)-ish here (i.e. - the kind of anim� viewer whose mentality is "OMG KANTO WUZ THE BEST AND EVERYTHING AFTER SUCKS!" or something like that.) Besides, just for the record, Kanto (and Johto), as good as they were, were a bit of a narrative trainwreck at times (although admittely, it's a perfect storm of factors too)(Granted, you could also just hate the anime altogether, which I don't have a reply for)

    I know the Pok�mon anime is just for kids, and it's not the games or the Pok�Spe Manga, but geez, you guys make it sound like it's the worse thing ever ,__,

    I dunno, after seeing you guys analyze Yoshida and the franchise, seeing you just bash Pok�mon like that is bizarre. Granted, this is a Yu-Gi-Oh! forum, but still.

    Anyway, getting back on topic, the ever-changing status of Aki's powers, which Starry hit the nail right on the head on, is probablyone of my biggest gripes (if not the biggest) which Yoshida and his clich�s.
    I can't stay into Pokemon anymore. I was a huge fan when I was younger, but now I like to watch things with good story telling. And that's why YGO frustrates me at times, at least moreso with ZeXal, but some of the stuff in 5D's as well, looking back on it.
    My current projects:

    5D's Novel - "Beyond the Future" by GoldenUmi"

    Yu-Gi-Oh! Noah Arc Rewrite

    *Takes place after Alcatraz, combining elements of the Falsebound Kingdom video game with the original Noah anime arc, using Scott Irvine as the final boss*

    Yu-Gi-Oh! Doma and KC Grand Prix Arc Rewrite

    *A rewrite based in the manga timeline of the story.*

    Advertisement Board:

    Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D's Novelization by Drago

    Linking Mythology in Yu-Gi-Oh!

  6. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Pokemon gets the bashing chiefly because of it's episodic nature*, probably because of its growing stronger plot line in the games and the fact Special exists. Full stop. I would say that Pokemon was in partial hell when Johto and Hoenn were involved. I personally have 0 issue with the anime other than I wish it was more overarchy (Which it is now, but I've sadly grown out of the show, so I can't make much comment.)

    * Detective means it in an actually good way, since he has experience in dealing with TV Scripts. Basically I think his point is that the mostly episodic nature of Pokemon makes it an extremely cushy job, as well as somewhat easy on a writer. You just need to create a fun if simple plot, pick a few characters, use a Pokemon you're probably told to use, and viola, episode.

    Aki makes me wonder...

    DM for the most part was good with Mai, Isis, and Anzu. And the main complaint with Doma!Mai is that her reasoning for working with Doma was atrociously ham-fisted (which it was).

    But most of GX was under Takegami Junki's supervision and it was his operations that allowed Asuka to become a useless blow-up doll by the end of everything and making most of the finale of GX's third season into a veritable Sausage Fest up to and including the Space Jew Gay Wedding of DOOM.

    Aki gets weird as it seems like someone in Yoshida's camp kept trying to write her into the main plotline of the Yliaster Arc, as she was a decent player in the Dark Signers arc (Now as to the quality of her actual actions in that plot, we can get into an argument), but when they try to have her join Jack, Crow, and Yusei, it's like some magical Yaoi Fangirl Hand from above smacks her into a corner and telling her to stay out of the glorious sausage harem. (Sherry got the treatment)

    It's just. What. Yoshida and the Director had these characters introduced, so it seems somewhat at odds that they'd keep sidelining a female character who was a 'supposed' major element early on in terms of her involvement, and then. Not use her...? It just strikes me as odd that Yoshida keeps introducing women, and then for some reason they get shoved in the closet in favor of an increasing Sausage Fest. The terms of quality of the girls can be argued in terms of Western vs Japanese Roles for Women in terms of Values Dissonance. But I'm confused to call Sexism when 5D's seems to keep trying to introduce interesting women, well into Yoshida's run.

    And I know I keep going back to it, but with my only major reference to his authority over a show being it, he wasn't that god awful with Speed Grapher. Ginza, while getting worfed, drove a lot of the plot's side elements when the Main Villains or the hero Saiga weren't involved. And much of the plot actual revolved around a teenage girl (though, one can argue sexism when she was basically a damsel for most of the plot, hut its hard to not be a damsel when the major obstacles in the series incluess Rubberman, The Amazing Diamond Model, and Dr. Drill Spider, and she's effectively The Normal despite being the MacGuffin). So it's not like he doesn't know how to involve female characters into his plotlines... Hrm.

    Anyway from seeing Ark's post, I think Yoshida would work better constructing just a manga, where he has more freedom to do what he pleases.
    Yoshida's fine. If you can keep him the hell away from Toys. That's his damnation. He seems to write heady psychological fiction with moral aesops concerning humanity's greed and "I want it now" attitudes blocking their ability to think long term. Which is very much more modern Sci-Fi and Noir in its thinking.

    Now Karas we can cut into, as that was Symbolism Central so hard core that his VAs and Production Staff couldn't follow what the hell he was thinking or how anything worked together. A good suggestion for those trying to cut into Yoshida would be to look into Sacred Seven, a new Sunrise production with him as Series Composer, that is some sort of Boarding School thing meeting Powered Armor/Mecha. With that as a more recent production, we can possibly have a more intelligent discussion on his YGO vs not-YGO work with new material on hand.

    On a side note, for those looking for Yoshida's Work:
    Series Composition:
    - Z.O.E. Dolores, I
    - Speed Grapher
    - Karas OVAs
    - Sacred Seven

    Scripts:
    - Argento Soma Episode 15
    - Acts 9 and 11 of The Big O
    - Machine Robo Rescue 16, 21, 26, 31, 39, and 47
    - Witch Hunter Robin 6, 9, and 19
    - Kurau Phantom Memory 15 and 16
    - Texhnolyze 5, 9, 10, 14, and 18
    - Naruto Shippuden 93, 94, 95, 98, 99, 100, 104, 108, 115, 117, 118, 129, 130, 135, 139, 143, 145, 148, 154, 155
    Last edited by NeoArkadia; 06/30/11 at 06:03 PM.

    Open, Bermuda Gate!

    #duelacademy_r2 on LJ & irc.darkmyst.org!

    Looking for new players to play Yu-Gi-Oh! Canon Characters or Original Characters.


  7. Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,263
    Group
    Senior Member
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Spoiler: Wall of text on my opinion on what the failings of 5D's were, aside from the more obvious ones involving Yoshida
    One thing we have to note regarding DM's relative stability is that it had a lot of Takahashi's and Jump's influence. Jump primarily goes with generic shounen battle anime that grabs readers, and as a result needs a multi-arc story structure with a fairly linear plot and minimal WTF to avoid losing popularity. Save Bleach and Reborn, since they're half-way fueled by character love from fangirls, and Gintama since that's pretty much the Japanese Futurama/South Park. As in, Shueisha corporate meddling + editorial team and Takahashi's control over his series most likely served as a sort of counterbalance to Konami's corporate meddling.

    It's not like Takahashi's an astronomical writer himself. He pretty much can't write his own duels, seems to have relatively little interest in the way his own series goes, and effectively relies on Atem and the equivalent of Deus Ex Machinas to resolve battles at times. The whole "Destiny Draw" deal, the "YOU JUST ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD" portrayal, the impossible to win situations, and ludicrous combos that are pretty much YGO's trademarks all started with Takahashi. It's just that we didn't have as many wonky mid-series plot changes or toyetic corporate meddling commercialism screwups thanks to Takahashi's position. Up until then, the card game was just side merchandise.

    But Konami and NAS show a tendency to be incapable of keeping their noses out when necessary and intervening for the sake of the show otherwise. Bad duel writing? It's almost always been the Spell/Trap line that's been situational as hell in YGO, and that's because Konami and the anime team can't make decent, stable, original s/t for the life of them while sustaining dramatic effect. Well, rather, there's a way to keep things stable, but for some reason SOME party or another within the dev teams seems to screw things up. And that's partially because they made no-cost end-game level cards ala Heavy and Mirror Force at the very beginning of the show. Half the forced duels and bizarre writing are a long-term result of Konami and Takahashi's doing early on. There's also the fact that we seem to have multiple card design teams slaughtering each other, so that leads to additional chaos.

    And then we have my previous Gundam 00 comparison. If you have a basic plot outline for an entire season, you don't go and shoot that outline to bits at the last moment without expecting a massive aftershock. We know Crow's character position was changed mid-way, but Crow showed up ridiculously early in the Dark Signer Arc. The change in backstory shouldn't have affected the plot. But it did. Rua got shot to hell and back. Whatever changes involving Crow seems to have thrown the plot off track, and as such is most likely linked to the series' extension and Konami meddling regarding BFs. Considering how 1 movie decision threw over 70% of a 26 episode plotline into total chaos with 00, I'd say Crow's new position forced the crew into rewriting a good chunk of the plot for the Dark Signer arc, leaving them with not enough time to get the plot done before the 3rd season.

    This push would've been relatively fine had they not turned Crow into a Signer, but well...Konami loves BFs and for some reason somebody decided he had to be one to be a main character. So this leads to further inconsistencies in the plot. And then we had the movie team formed sometime mid-Season 3. The central staff got shoved into movie development, so there's a very high possibility that there was less time to work on the main series as a result, which led to more filler in the main show. Of course, about 10 episodes would've been understandable at the third season as a kind of buffer for the next plot, but as we all know we got an entire season of slice of life that was less entertaining than Judai's insanity. And I say the movie + Crow and Kiryu pushing is the cause of it.

    And then the WRGP. What the hell was that? We got experimental cards here and there that got nerfed or cut, the duels were wonky as hell, and everything was just sick and wrong. The duel designers showed utter incompetence during the WRGP(save Team Taiyou), and combining that kind of low-grade gameplay with the "But I'm not gonna give up" screenplay only served to create a negative image. I mean, they weren't even the kind of insanity-based compulsive actions we get in ZEXAL, just "how are these guys pro?" moves that looked like something out of Bleach. Not to mention that we had characters having their personalities outright rewritten. Of course, considering how it came off the coattails of the movie, we can't rule out the possibility of a rush job in an attempt to get the plot structure done. In which case the source of the chaos goes all the way back to the Dark Signer Arc and Crow, since Crow+Kiryu seems to be the source of most of the troubles regarding pacing, and like I said the movie is likely to have sucked up resources.

    The Ark Cradle plot was fine up until we got to ZONE, but the entire series itself was already as unstable as hell by that point if you look at the rest of the show. And then Konami+NAS planned ZEXAL somewhere during that arc, so that's pretty much a disaster formula. The show was already in a similar yet worse condition in comparison to how it was fairing during the Dark Signer Arc and couldn't afford any hiccups. It was incapable of making any plot changes look like they made proper sense given the way the series was flowing, let alone go into depth regarding things that weren't explained. And with ZEXAL being planned? I'd say deadlines, deadlines, deadlines with no chance at an extension of 5D's, which they seriously needed to go in depth into everything. So that's pretty much setup for the ZONE fiasco.

    And regarding ZONE, I'm still somewhat stumped. Is ZONE=/=Yusei Yoshida's doing, Ono's doing, or somebody else's doing? Keep in mind that Yoshida enjoys having either outright twisted nutcases or fallen messiahs as his antagonists, and that his normal heroes happen to be socially screwy or psychologically screwy people who eventually end up finding redemption. Otoha in Karas is an ex-Yakuza member who's the son of his brother, and Karas is pretty much Yoshida Style DX. It's honestly unlike Yoshida to not have Yusei be ZONE. Given how the preview for the final ep against ZONE originally showed the entire Stardust line including /Buster being removed from the grave, but ended up being the Signer Dragons in the final product, I can't help but think that the final duel got a series of edits and redubs mid-way due to a change of mind on the behalf of somebody higher than Yoshida. Though it could just be bad pacing and other factors.

    On that note, regarding Yusei, Yoshida's Yusei from the Dark Signer arc was originally a cool-headed nice guy superman whose major flaw was that he'd turn into an Ikari Shinji level whiner whenever he lost confidence. And while Yusei would win ridiculously often, he'd at least accept that he won a good portion of games through asspulls and have nightmares about his limits before we got into the WRGP arc. Annoying as hell, but not somebody who's impossible. There are a few superhumans in society every once in a while. ONE hero like that in a show where such a character has never shown up isn't a catastrophe as long as you sustain consistency. But that got shot during most of the WRGP thanks to horrible duel writing and bad portrayal. Which, again, in my opinion is most likely a complex series of screwups instead of simply just Yoshida's fault.

    All in all, the ENTIRE staff and franchise structure showed signs of underlying fatigue, conspiracies, and incompetence during 5D's. You can't get THAT much chaos over the course of 125 episodes unless the entire staff team is hit by a series of corporate screwups or internal disagreement. Or a tactical nuclear weapon like the crazy yaoi writer in charge of SEED Destiny who's effectively a one-person corporate executive team when it comes to meddling. The problem with 5D's, was ultimately that it tried too hard to be normal and was too linear to overcome whatever changes and hiccups that occured mid-way. There are WAY too many variables that can affect portrayal and stabililty in YGO. Yoshida's standard writing style just wasn't fit for the franchise when it came to 5D's, and to be truthful, 5D's itself wasn't fit for the franchise. Not even Tomioka would be able to cover the amount of structural chaos and bad dueling that was in 5D's by endgame, personally. Same goes for Takegami. Maybe if they had two or more head writers working on the plot together, but not with one.

    As for the sexism, it seems to be a general problem with YGO save for the GX manga, and is something that isn't going to be easily fixed. That's not to say Yoshida's completely innocent for not giving female characters more plot relevance. But the general male, 7-year-old-oriented atmosphere of the card sales, the male demographic of the show, and the more shounen-oriented female character positions in general are a long-standing crux of the industry. Females are either oversexualized and made into hot fighting chicks that make for god-tier fap fodder, or they're turned into moeblobs or random support. As a result, any female that appears for more than one or two arcs as an ally is often likely to get nerfed or corrupted, become a useless cheerleader, or turn into what's effectively random fap fodder. Of course, on rare occasion somebody defies this female undermining, but that's relatively unlikely with corporate meddling and commercial interests regarding the franchise these days. You could do something if you gathered enough younger female players, but then you'd have to make a cast and plot oriented towards younger girls.

    Aki's value as a character dropped after she became normal, personally. Psycho Aki with all the sadism was pretty much what made her stand out amongst YGO heroines. Erasing that completely was a bad idea, but at the same time keeping her as a psycho dominatrix wasn't exactly proper, either. The fact that she recovered from her insanity is pretty much what killed her, sadly. And that's somewhat related to the original plotline before the extension. They pretty much ended on a note with Aki becoming happy, rendering her plot relevance next to 0.


    The problem we're facing with YGO, especially with 5D's, isn't just Yoshida being unsuited for such a commercial environment. Given the number of similar screwup cases I've seen regarding commercialized toy-driven shows, it's really more of a long-standing structural problem with the entire franchise that's finally starting to collapse in on itself after all these years. It's by coincidence that Yoshida is the one placed at the epicenter of this collapse. The series has become SO vulnerable to corporate meddling, issues involving the production staff, and Konami card sales that it's pretty much incapable of doing a dark, serious, steady, linear plot. GX Season 4 had a lot of unused backstories, IIRC, and 5D's has been a general wreck regarding compatibility and pacing. Yoshida's plots and the background settings that Yoshida and Ono come up with are in the same vein as Takahashi when it comes to the bizarre and bat****, but it seems that there's production chaos involving the toys or some other random variable that screws them and the franchise over whenever Yoshida gets involved. And with the YGO fanbase slowly starting to reach adulthood, we just don't have the room for another series like 5D's that can be done right, at least not with the toys being Yoshida's bane.

    In this regard, ZEXAL's taking a chance that just might pay off. With a more kiddy, monster of the week based structure with a more obvious linear plot, and enough filler-related elbow room to keep the series going for at least 4 years, we actually might get the first Konami/NAS meddling immune main plot since DM. While it COULD drag on forever, it WOULD give Yoshida more time to pull his standard "throw hints out there, prepare for final reveal" tricks while creating a sort of buffer that would allow him to compensate for any plot changes that he or somebody else decides on. While the way the plot's structured would allow you to enter a random ep and catch up without as much confusion. And it'd give them enough room to keep Konami cards and corporate meddling contained in a manageable range by keeping everything diluted and limited to mostly filler characters, thus reducing the likeliness of any insane "Oh hey, that's an archtype we can push, let's make him a main character" moments ala Crow.

    It's not a bad strategy considering the commercial nature of the franchise nowadays. It's a lot more like most of the other kid-oriented shows out there, sure. But with it being Yoshida and there having been rare series like GaoGaiGar, Danball Senki, Digimon Tamers and the likes in the past, it's actually the most stable strategy they can take when it comes to creating a new fanbase while keeping the original atmosphere alive to an extent. At least while Konami's around. And it increases the likeliness of a plot and portrayal that plays on Yoshida's strengths instead of his weaknesses. Which would thus compensate for the structural flaws of the franchise somewhat. Let's just hope that the new structure holds instead of blowing up like the last two. They do say third time's the charm, right?

    Want to bring YGO back to its former glory? Have Konami sell YGO to Bushiroad. Seriously, Konami does nothing good for the franchise.
    Last edited by kahunyu; 06/30/11 at 07:52 PM.

  8. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    BG
    Posts
    7,855
    Group
    Senior Member

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Lol I managed to read all of your post.

    And yes you are right on every point about the DECAY of the YGO! franchise since the end of DM.
    Its just that way to easy to blame most of 5D's decay at least on Yoshida. Mostly cuz we know only him(at least his name and that sometimes is enough X)) and maybe some other person that has the responsibility. And is the right figure to take blame even if not all of it.
    Since we don't know all the details you made us clear on some and we mostly speculate on the rest for our blaming using logic at least. But at the end we know too little what's really going on behind the curtains.
    But we do need our rage outlet X). SO we have such threads. N o matter how much we try to make our posts be logical and have facts. When 3-10 ppl post the same things it just looks like a bashing thread. And that's OK cuz we are normal fans but we cannot do anything about the franchise's mistakes and the way its works transform the new YGO! series with time.

    If Zexal no matter how kiddie and almost the same as the rest kid game animes. If Zexal manages to get the franchise out of the mud some how. I'll accept it a lot more even if I don't watch it. If not well that just may mean the end of the YGO! shows not based on a manga at least. Meaning of it reaches the low of GX. Cuz no one can say if it will reach the low of 5D's worst parts.
    AS you said(in a way) Zexal is the kind of show that is more safe not to reach such a low.
    Well, I think that is what the fans that are still around and watch it pray for.
    Last edited by DARKMASTER; 06/30/11 at 10:56 PM.

    Dark Yūgi's DARK MIGHT

    DIE BY THE RAGE OF THE GODS, 4K!D$!

    Power of Chaos - Alternate Art Cards Project by DARKMASTER Stalled

  9. Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    3,429
    Group
    Senior Member
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by DARKMASTER View Post
    We do need our rage outlets, so we have such threads
    Perhaps I am reading your Post wrong but this Thread wasn't designed to rage at Yoshida. It was designed to state our beliefs on his writing clearly so that when someone asks "why don't you like him?" we can direct them here. It was never designed to be a thread where people rage at Yoshida - but i suppose it can act as that thread to if it means stopping people from derailing other threads.

    What gets me is that few people so far, to my knowledge, who actually likes Yoshida's writing has given any reason other than mythology dropping and symbolism and just the general plot - yes he provides interesting characters and plot, but in terms of how he executed the premise and the characters. Few people who actually like what he does actually seem to say why they like him.

    So, since we have, I believe gathered all the general reasons as to why we dislike Yoshida's writing, I offer a new question to you all.

    What does everyone like about Yoshida's writing.

    I like:
    - The characters he innitially presents, the outlines of them at least. He presents, I feel, characters that seem extremely interesting. I haven't disliked any character brought in while he was the Series Composor for Yu-Gi-Oh - they all seem exteresting when they first appear.
    - The concept and premise of his overarching story plots - I like the tone and general nature of the plots. They are my kind of story.
    - The fact that he can drop symbolism and mythology references - wrong and incorrect as they may be some times - aplenty and quite well.

    I think his major flaw is not seemingly being able to make his writing and narrative from one moment to the next consistant with the characters and his seeming desire to make the good character bland and uninspiring.

    That pretty much sums up my issues with Yoshida.

    I ask again, why do we all like his writing?

    Pink Hat Projects

    Fanfiction Repositories

    The Pink Hatted Box: Yu-Gi-Oh Fanfiction
    The Other Box: Other Fanfiction

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Current Projects:

    5Ds Novelized

    Coming Soon

    N/A

    Future Projects

    ZeXal Novelized
    DT Story Novelization

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Advertisement Board:

    Meow~The Cathy Fanclub~Meow
    GoldenUmi's Novel


  10. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    BG
    Posts
    7,855
    Group
    Senior Member

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    I know what you meant this thread for. You don't have to repeat. Its just that it comes of as a bash thread when few ppl in a row talk about almost the same things. Which is normal cuz we don't have much pros on him. And in the end its even very funny when a row of posts start making a combo jokes that are connected as if they planned it. And is more funny since its all on topic XP.

    Maybe we should start bringing up the excuses that are possible/logical for his bad writing to make it more clear. Well I think kahunyu said most of it, but I still have the feeling we miss some.
    ^ use that or just we wait for anyone to come up with any more pros on Yoshida and his 5D's writing. Or his writing pros in a whole.
    Last edited by DARKMASTER; 07/01/11 at 12:21 AM.

    Dark Yūgi's DARK MIGHT

    DIE BY THE RAGE OF THE GODS, 4K!D$!

    Power of Chaos - Alternate Art Cards Project by DARKMASTER Stalled

  11. Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    3,429
    Group
    Senior Member
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by DARKMASTER View Post
    I know what you meant this thread for. You don't have to repeat. Its just that it comes of as a bash thread when few ppl in a row talk about almost the same things. Which is normal cuz we don't have much pros on him. And in the end its even very funny when a row of posts start making a combo jokes that are connected as if they planned it. And is more funny since its all on topic XP.

    Maybe we should start bringing up the excuses that are possible/logical for his bad writing to make it more clear. Well I think kahunyu said most of it, but I still have the feeling we miss some.
    ^ use that or just we wait for anyone to come up with any more pros on Yoshida and his 5D's writing. Or his writing pros in a whole.
    I don't think anything kahunyu said can excuse, or should be allowed to, his bad writing. Nothing should be allowed to excuse something that is writen poorly. Yoshida knows what situation he is in, even if he has to change and alter things midway, he should still have the skill enough to make the narrative flow and not be disjointed and jarring. If there is a change Yoshida, or whoevcer if writing, should be able to make it as subtle as possible.

    The constraints of something should never affect the quality of the writing within it.
    Last edited by dragosix; 07/01/11 at 12:31 AM.

    Pink Hat Projects

    Fanfiction Repositories

    The Pink Hatted Box: Yu-Gi-Oh Fanfiction
    The Other Box: Other Fanfiction

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Current Projects:

    5Ds Novelized

    Coming Soon

    N/A

    Future Projects

    ZeXal Novelized
    DT Story Novelization

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Advertisement Board:

    Meow~The Cathy Fanclub~Meow
    GoldenUmi's Novel


  12. Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,665
    Group
    Senior Member
    Infractions
    1/1 (1)

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Yoshida reminds me of John Nathan Turner and Ruined The Doctor (RTD), in that as an idealist, he can come up with some very good ideas, but as the show runner he is appauling and makes some terrible decisions. I'm reminded of JNT because of how JNT got stuck working on DW with no way out. In short for those not in the know, the BBC said it would axe the show if JNT left. In the end he and the show became inseperable.

    Now I'm not saying NAS have done the same with Yoshida, but I do wonder if his "dedication" to the show is because he admires the fans and fears if he left it could well end a show many of us love.


    “A still tongue makes a happy life”
    --Village Maxim



  13. Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    3,429
    Group
    Senior Member
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by YaminoRPG View Post
    Yoshida reminds me of John Nathan Turner and Ruined The Doctor (RTD), in that as an idealist, he can come up with some very good ideas, but as the show runner he is appauling and makes some terrible decisions. I'm reminded of JNT because of how JNT got stuck working on DW with no way out. In short for those not in the know, the BBC said it would axe the show if JNT left. In the end he and the show became inseperable.

    Now I'm not saying NAS have done the same with Yoshida, but I do wonder if his "dedication" to the show is because he admires the fans and fears if he left it could well end a show many of us love.
    I agree with your analysis there.

    Pink Hat Projects

    Fanfiction Repositories

    The Pink Hatted Box: Yu-Gi-Oh Fanfiction
    The Other Box: Other Fanfiction

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Current Projects:

    5Ds Novelized

    Coming Soon

    N/A

    Future Projects

    ZeXal Novelized
    DT Story Novelization

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Advertisement Board:

    Meow~The Cathy Fanclub~Meow
    GoldenUmi's Novel


  14. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    - Yoshida is very good at symbolism, at the very least. He's good at mixing in this Kaballah/Alchemy related subtext where it stays on the side for the most and you can grin as you see it. Amnael, the detail into the Jibakushin, and even the effort into the Kaballah of the Time Lords is rather impressive.

    - His initial premises, while similar, are intriguing and I like how they have this scattered pieces element. Jigsaw Puzzle Plots always strike me as fun, and his tendency with it works with how the original Yu-Gi-Oh! set up a lot of jigsaw-y stuff over the course of its own story, so its not as if there's anything wrong with going for Jigsaw-y. That and it lends Yu-Gi-Oh! a bit more story and depth than it would if it was just card fighting without all this background styling.

    - The initial characters his plots introduce, such as Trueman, Sherry, and Raphael have been fairly popular/liked by the fanbase. They are often either intriguing or reasonably motivated, regardless of where the story leads them.

    - His use of bigger plots and longer connecting storylines helps give YGO some sort of a flair that it just wouldn't have if it didn't involve him on some level in the creative process. (I get the vibe he helps with a lot of the early weirdness of GX and 5D's.

    But as Kahunyu said, it just goes to hell in a handbasket with toyetic related stuff.

    Have Konami sell YGO to Bushiroad. Seriously, Konami does nothing good for the franchise.
    Correction: Shueisha does nothing good for the franchise. Konami Digital Entertainment's American branch has said that basically all major key decisions are approved by Shueisha, since it is their franchise first and foremost, and NAS/TVT and Konami are merely subcontractors licensing the brand from Shueisha.

    Open, Bermuda Gate!

    #duelacademy_r2 on LJ & irc.darkmyst.org!

    Looking for new players to play Yu-Gi-Oh! Canon Characters or Original Characters.


  15. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    BG
    Posts
    7,855
    Group
    Senior Member

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Its good to know THE REAL source of the decay and low. Being it a person or a company.

    Its better to blame the right ppl even with the little information we have X).

    Dark Yūgi's DARK MIGHT

    DIE BY THE RAGE OF THE GODS, 4K!D$!

    Power of Chaos - Alternate Art Cards Project by DARKMASTER Stalled

  16. Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Futago Pass
    Posts
    1,903
    Group
    Senior Member
    Blog Entries
    37

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Even with the immense amount of blame that falls on other parties and higher ups, I don't think Shin Yoshida gets a "get out of hack writing free" card. I haven't seen too much of his other work but being tripped up because a series is "toyetic" really speaks to me of failure to be flexible as a writer, and also as an intense failure on the part of whoever assigned him this job. Letting Tomioka leave killed 5Ds, letting Yoshida have the reigns sent it pedaling its failbike into the eternal chasm of suck, to (probably mis)quote a friend.

    The thing is, Yoshida's arcs tend to end up doing horrible, horrible things with characterization. To compare:

    Yusei pre-Dark Signer vs. WRGP Yusei: The former was a fairly likable character who actually felt impulsive and made fairly reckless decisions at times (he freakin' follows Jack out of Satellite for a trading card) but hid it behind a mask of being stoic and unperturbed. The latter was honestly the worst-characterization-fail I've seen in 5Ds, from his wildly inconsistent freak-outs relating to Zero Reverse and Momentum (neither of which he had a hand in AT ALL) to his bizarre obsession with the synchro mechanic- an obsession that, until Yoshida took over writing, didn't actually exist. Yusei ran a synchro-based deck because he happened to run a synchro-based deck, and it fit him. He didn't run it because of PROOF OF EVOLUTION, HUMAN BONDS SHOW THE PATH TO THE FUTURE. He made it from junk cards. Cards that I'd go squee if I found in the junk in some cases, but junk cards nonetheless.

    "Judai from Seasons 1-3 of GX" vs. "Judai in Season 4": Alright, maybe I'm the only one who cares here, but Judai in season four was written in the most un-Judai manner ever, and it really didn't work. Judai was a hammy spotlight hog of a protagonist, but the times he worked best were when he basically bounced off the rest of the cast and the general response was "WTF"- see any number of duels where he outright compliments the opponent trying their best to kill him on their gameplay. The thing about season four Judai is this is just coming after what was at the time the single weirdest arc resolution in YGO history until 5Ds tried to top it with Musclewin and Crazy Steve the Godlike Cosplayer. Judai feels responsible for drawing an evil presence of evilness to the island, so he tries to leave. His friends stop him. Judai reacts by... continuing to act distant and secluded for the rest of the arc, and then somehow being the only human with enough not-despair to resist Darkness (and to break EVERYONE ELSE out as well). Um, no. You don't get to do that after moping the entire arc Judai, you really don't. Not on such short notice.

    Aki: I don't need to explain this one. Alright, I do. The Dark Signer resolution of Aki's issues was bad. Her KOMEDY appearances and random power change-ups in the WRGP were worse. Her ultimate resolution being suddenly becoming a doctor with no expressed dreams of such before has filled me with such rage that I plan to don a mask later tonight and attack random people with trading cards as "The Scarlet Witch".

    JACK: I don't see why anyone is saying he was preserved. He wasn't. Pre-Crimson-Devil, Jack was winning games with Smiling Angel, defeating his more awesome robot duplicate with giant nose fairies, and generally just not living up to the badass he was supposed to be. This is largely because Jack is, in the mind of Yoshida, second fiddle to Yusei- the STRONG person who is not as enlightened as the main hero. As such, JACK is not allowed, at any time, to be right about a solution being as simple as punching the things in your way in the face- even when it could be. Scar-Red Nova may be the devil in a trading card, but JACK's GAR factor was seriously toned-down in that duel, and it could have had so much more awesome packed in. I'm not impressed, at all.

    Friendship is magic. Deal with it.




    Scarlet Weather Enterprises- Together, with the oath sworn by ponies.

    Mecha Miko Reimu theme by the lovely and talented Phani.



  17. Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    3,429
    Group
    Senior Member
    Blog Entries
    4

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarletWeather View Post
    stuff about Yusei
    Not trying to say that Yoshida handled Yusei agnsting over Zero Reverse well, he didn't. However it is a japanese culture thing where that is concerned to my knowledge. In japan they do believe heavily the sins of the father get past onto the son thing. So seeing him angst over it made sense, it was just handled wrong and then after the one breakdown was only brought up again by using the same amount of drama, which it shouldn't have been.

    I do agree though that the limitations of a story shouldn't ever affect the quality of writing.

    Pink Hat Projects

    Fanfiction Repositories

    The Pink Hatted Box: Yu-Gi-Oh Fanfiction
    The Other Box: Other Fanfiction

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Current Projects:

    5Ds Novelized

    Coming Soon

    N/A

    Future Projects

    ZeXal Novelized
    DT Story Novelization

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Advertisement Board:

    Meow~The Cathy Fanclub~Meow
    GoldenUmi's Novel


  18. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarletWeather View Post
    JACK: I don't see why anyone is saying he was preserved. He wasn't. Pre-Crimson-Devil, Jack was winning games with Smiling Angel, defeating his more awesome robot duplicate with giant nose fairies, and generally just not living up to the badass he was supposed to be. This is largely because Jack is, in the mind of Yoshida, second fiddle to Yusei- the STRONG person who is not as enlightened as the main hero. As such, JACK is not allowed, at any time, to be right about a solution being as simple as punching the things in your way in the face- even when it could be. Scar-Red Nova may be the devil in a trading card, but JACK's GAR factor was seriously toned-down in that duel, and it could have had so much more awesome packed in. I'm not impressed, at all.
    *scratches head*

    >beats the crap out of an entire gang and their leader
    >one ups his evil robot twin with three RDDs by summoning his ace in super form and proceeds to wipe the floor with him
    >is a practically a part time vigilante for part of season 3
    >wipes the floor out of one of the Team Catastrophe members, evades a card of darkness and even rescues said member
    >flip the bird on an Earthbound God three times
    >qualifies as the biggest ham of the series

    If anything, he became more badass after season 1. Especially since he spent almost half the season doing nothing but sitting on the couch. Oh except for getting his Atlas punch blocked by Bommer (granted Bommer is huge but still). I still think he was the favorite (after messiah Yusei) since he suffered the least in the third arc and beyond, got the most entertaining filler episodes and actually achieves his long time goal of becoming king again.
    Last edited by Starry; 07/02/11 at 04:46 AM.

  19. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarletWeather View Post
    JACK: I don't see why anyone is saying he was preserved. He wasn't. Pre-Crimson-Devil, Jack was winning games with Smiling Angel, defeating his more awesome robot duplicate with giant nose fairies, and generally just not living up to the badass he was supposed to be. This is largely because Jack is, in the mind of Yoshida, second fiddle to Yusei- the STRONG person who is not as enlightened as the main hero. As such, JACK is not allowed, at any time, to be right about a solution being as simple as punching the things in your way in the face- even when it could be. Scar-Red Nova may be the devil in a trading card, but JACK's GAR factor was seriously toned-down in that duel, and it could have had so much more awesome packed in. I'm not impressed, at all.
    I disagree with this. JACK changed a lot from season 1 to season 3, sure. But Yoshida JACK was so over the top he was amazing.

    Old Jack:*punches someone. Punch is blocked.*
    Yoshida JACK:[Punches someone. Proceeds to beat up entire gang while laughing like a maniac.]

    Old Jack:*loses to Yusei, is bleeding slightly from the head and passes out*
    Yoshida JACK: *loses to Andre, has crashed a motorcycle and broken every bone in his body, but PUSHES THE MOTHERFLIPPING MOTORCYCLE TO THE FINISH LINE.*

    Old Jack: [Speech about being good]
    Yoshida JACK: MY BURNING SOUL SHALL DEFEAT YOU BECAUSE I'M MANLY.
    [Turns devil into a trading card by setting his hand on fire]

    JACK was allowed to be right, but very rarely. His solution to his Dragan problem was "TAKE BACK MY PRIDE BY BEATING THE CRAP OUTTA HIM" and Yusei went "okay bro. I get you." *brofist*

    Everyone told him that beating up a whole gang was a stupid idea. He basically gave them the finger and went HAHAHAHA I'M JACK ATLAS BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIlTCHES and beat them up anyway.

    Not only that, but he was crowned unquestionable KING OF THE WORLD at the end of the series and seemed like he still wanted to defeat Yusei. Yoshida wrote JACK to be the second best duelist in the series other than the main character. Sure, he suffered a lot in terms of characterization, but he was still badass.

    He went from "...defending is harder than attacking, so I defend because I'm that kind of person" to "POWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAH"

    I mean really.

    Also, his solution to his power problem is amazing.

    Bommer:"Dude you need to stop relying on power."
    JACK:"...No."
    Devil:"BUT IF YOU RELY ON POWER, YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE TO ME"
    JACK:"Screw you. I just need SO MUCH POWER THAT I CAN OVERSHADOW ALL LOGIC!"
    [Does so]
    Yusei:"You learned a new way of fighting JACK."
    JACK:"...Really? I mean I just became more manly than I already was."
    Yusei:"That's all you need bro."
    [Brofist]

    Yes, JACK was screwed, but he was pretty much Yoshida's second favorite character I think. He was ruined the least out of everyone.

    His characterization went to hell like everyone else's, but he had the benefit of having an incredible new characterization. I mean it's cheesy as hell, but BADASS ATLAS was an amazing over the top character.

  20. Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Futago Pass
    Posts
    1,903
    Group
    Senior Member
    Blog Entries
    37

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    I disagree with this. JACK changed a lot from season 1 to season 3, sure. But Yoshida JACK was so over the top he was amazing.

    Old Jack:*punches someone. Punch is blocked.*
    Yoshida JACK:[Punches someone. Proceeds to beat up entire gang while laughing like a maniac.]
    Old Jack: "Yusei, I'll return this card to you. -borderline sneer, throws away super-rare card as if it was nothing-"
    New Jack: "TRUST GUARDIAN!"

    Old Jack: "A king is always three steps ahead! -counters Yusei's defensive play-"
    New Jack: -Gets trashed by a little kid running freakin' butterflies and birdies-

    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    Old Jack:*loses to Yusei, is bleeding slightly from the head and passes out*
    Yoshida JACK: *loses to Andre, has crashed a motorcycle and broken every bone in his body, but PUSHES THE MOTHERFLIPPING MOTORCYCLE TO THE FINISH LINE.*

    Old Jack: [Speech about being good]
    Yoshida JACK: MY BURNING SOUL SHALL DEFEAT YOU BECAUSE I'M MANLY.
    [Turns devil into a trading card by setting his hand on fire]
    Okay, I'm not even going to bother making a comparison. The Crimson Devil. Was. Awful. That arc was awful. I'm sorry I have to rant here but was anyone else actually watching that duel?

    First of all, JACK does not act manly during it, at all. He freakin' durps out Effect Matador- who I will not dignify by looking up the real name of- and freakin' RFGs his own synchro, his VERY SOUL. For 600. Lousy. Damage. He wins by virtue of the Yusei method of new cards out the **** which, situationally, allow him to set up a gamestate where he can summon a god monster and obliterate his opponent. This is not manly. I will never acknowledge it as manly. Yoshida!Jack did not deserve the freakin' Devil.

    The motorcycle push, may I remind you, happens after Jack loses to Andre. You know, Andre of Team Unicorn. Andre of team we-barely-have-a-coherent-strategy. Andre of oh come on REALLY? It's not manly, it's BS, and furthermore it turns out to be apparently pointless because in all successive duels aside from Team Chaos, the motorcycle push is apparently completely unnecessary. See, 5Ds vs. New World.

    Sure, Jack loses consciousness from a crash. But you know what? He earned it. He didn't pull BS during that duel. He played smart. He played cards I'd actually want to use. He actually forced Yusei into a corner. He continues the grudge match when the Crimson Dragon pulls him into an alternate friggin' reality. That. Is. Manly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    JACK was allowed to be right, but very rarely. His solution to his Dragan problem was "TAKE BACK MY PRIDE BY BEATING THE CRAP OUTTA HIM" and Yusei went "okay bro. I get you." *brofist*
    I admit, Jack sorta kinda tried to make a comeback in the late WRGP, but when the man has been crying over cup ramen and being outfoxed by Yeager the silly clown, that doesn't impress me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    Everyone told him that beating up a whole gang was a stupid idea. He basically gave them the finger and went HAHAHAHA I'M JACK ATLAS BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIlTCHES and beat them up anyway.
    Given this is coming off of the Trust Guardian episode, I don't think it's quite enough to redeem the AHAHAHA, JACK SO GOOFY~ factor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    Not only that, but he was crowned unquestionable KING OF THE WORLD at the end of the series and seemed like he still wanted to defeat Yusei. Yoshida wrote JACK to be the second best duelist in the series other than the main character. Sure, he suffered a lot in terms of characterization, but he was still badass.
    And that right there is the problem. You do not write Jack to be second-best. You do not write Jack to be 'badass but not quite there'. You write Jack to be Yusei's rival.


    And that, quite frankly, is something else entirely. Jack as Yusei's rival was GAR in a more passive way, and hammy but in a way that didn't make him seem (too) goofy- you could believe he was actually capable of thinking through things, and actively chose to play for power because that's how Jack rolls. Yoshida!Jack was competent at best, but he was also the guy who broke down over freakin' cup ramen and lost to some really silly opponents. I mean, really, really silly. Looking at you, Bommer's younger brother, Andre.


    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    He went from "...defending is harder than attacking, so I defend because I'm that kind of person" to "POWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAH"

    I mean really.
    That's the problem, in part, actually. Jack's big thing was never Power, it's "I am the king, this is how I play". Yoshida's power emphasis makes for some really over the top potential moments, but it also has a side effect of making Jack a prime target for goofy silly time, and he was not ever the right character to hand that role to.

    I mean, really.


    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    Also, his solution to his power problem is amazing.

    Bommer:"Dude you need to stop relying on power."
    JACK:"...No."
    Devil:"BUT IF YOU RELY ON POWER, YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE TO ME"
    JACK:"Screw you. I just need SO MUCH POWER THAT I CAN OVERSHADOW ALL LOGIC!"
    [Does so]
    Yusei:"You learned a new way of fighting JACK."
    JACK:"...Really? I mean I just became more manly than I already was."
    Yusei:"That's all you need bro."
    [Brofist]

    Yes, JACK was screwed, but he was pretty much Yoshida's second favorite character I think. He was ruined the least out of everyone.
    I present Crow, refuting that claim.

    Also, he didn't either. JACK RFGs Red Daemon's during that duel for 600 damage and also plays a BS maneuver with Effect Matador. He doesn't use power during that duel, and he doesn't really win on his own terms- as Yusei put it, he discovers "a new way of fighting". In other words, he did not power through, he abandoned power because apparently solid aggressive strategies not using situational cards don't exist in 5Ds, and was granted a random asspull card he made up the conditions for on the fly.

    Yeah, um. HATE. THAT. ARC. :/

    (Did I mention it begins with Jack losing to a little kid? Yes? IT BEARS MENTIONING AGAIN.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    His characterization went to hell like everyone else's, but he had the benefit of having an incredible new characterization. I mean it's cheesy as hell, but BADASS ATLAS was an amazing over the top character.
    No, he wasn't. Not compared to the old Atlas. This is personal opinion, mind, so in the long run take it or leave it, but I hated what the series did with Jack almost as much as I hated Aki's change. The only character who got mostly untouched was Crow, and to be honest I'm sure if Yoshida had time he could have found a way to make him more obnoxious. :/

    Friendship is magic. Deal with it.




    Scarlet Weather Enterprises- Together, with the oath sworn by ponies.

    Mecha Miko Reimu theme by the lovely and talented Phani.



  21. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarletWeather View Post
    Old Jack: "Yusei, I'll return this card to you. -borderline sneer, throws away super-rare card as if it was nothing-"
    New Jack: "TRUST GUARDIAN!"

    Old Jack: "A king is always three steps ahead! -counters Yusei's defensive play-"
    New Jack: -Gets trashed by a little kid running freakin' butterflies and birdies-



    Okay, I'm not even going to bother making a comparison. The Crimson Devil. Was. Awful. That arc was awful. I'm sorry I have to rant here but was anyone else actually watching that duel?

    First of all, JACK does not act manly during it, at all. He freakin' durps out Effect Matador- who I will not dignify by looking up the real name of- and freakin' RFGs his own synchro, his VERY SOUL. For 600. Lousy. Damage. He wins by virtue of the Yusei method of new cards out the **** which, situationally, allow him to set up a gamestate where he can summon a god monster and obliterate his opponent. This is not manly. I will never acknowledge it as manly. Yoshida!Jack did not deserve the freakin' Devil.

    The motorcycle push, may I remind you, happens after Jack loses to Andre. You know, Andre of Team Unicorn. Andre of team we-barely-have-a-coherent-strategy. Andre of oh come on REALLY? It's not manly, it's BS, and furthermore it turns out to be apparently pointless because in all successive duels aside from Team Chaos, the motorcycle push is apparently completely unnecessary. See, 5Ds vs. New World.

    Sure, Jack loses consciousness from a crash. But you know what? He earned it. He didn't pull BS during that duel. He played smart. He played cards I'd actually want to use. He actually forced Yusei into a corner. He continues the grudge match when the Crimson Dragon pulls him into an alternate friggin' reality. That. Is. Manly.




    I admit, Jack sorta kinda tried to make a comeback in the late WRGP, but when the man has been crying over cup ramen and being outfoxed by Yeager the silly clown, that doesn't impress me.




    Given this is coming off of the Trust Guardian episode, I don't think it's quite enough to redeem the AHAHAHA, JACK SO GOOFY~ factor.




    And that right there is the problem. You do not write Jack to be second-best. You do not write Jack to be 'badass but not quite there'. You write Jack to be Yusei's rival.


    And that, quite frankly, is something else entirely. Jack as Yusei's rival was GAR in a more passive way, and hammy but in a way that didn't make him seem (too) goofy- you could believe he was actually capable of thinking through things, and actively chose to play for power because that's how Jack rolls. Yoshida!Jack was competent at best, but he was also the guy who broke down over freakin' cup ramen and lost to some really silly opponents. I mean, really, really silly. Looking at you, Bommer's younger brother, Andre.




    That's the problem, in part, actually. Jack's big thing was never Power, it's "I am the king, this is how I play". Yoshida's power emphasis makes for some really over the top potential moments, but it also has a side effect of making Jack a prime target for goofy silly time, and he was not ever the right character to hand that role to.

    I mean, really.




    I present Crow, refuting that claim.

    Also, he didn't either. JACK RFGs Red Daemon's during that duel for 600 damage and also plays a BS maneuver with Effect Matador. He doesn't use power during that duel, and he doesn't really win on his own terms- as Yusei put it, he discovers "a new way of fighting". In other words, he did not power through, he abandoned power because apparently solid aggressive strategies not using situational cards don't exist in 5Ds, and was granted a random asspull card he made up the conditions for on the fly.

    Yeah, um. HATE. THAT. ARC. :/

    (Did I mention it begins with Jack losing to a little kid? Yes? IT BEARS MENTIONING AGAIN.)




    No, he wasn't. Not compared to the old Atlas. This is personal opinion, mind, so in the long run take it or leave it, but I hated what the series did with Jack almost as much as I hated Aki's change. The only character who got mostly untouched was Crow, and to be honest I'm sure if Yoshida had time he could have found a way to make him more obnoxious. :/
    No offense, but all of your post comes down to the fact that the you didn't like the over the top much and that we have different ideas of manliness. You consider him playing the card game well to be manly, but I think it's manlier to ride a motorcycle out of an explosion while shouting that JACK ATLAS SHALL NOT LOSE TO THE POWERS OF DARKNESS. Is it stupid? Yes. Is it amazing? Also yes.

    JACK's changes were pretty okay with me. Yes JACK removed a monster to get 600 damage. Uh...okay? I don't really mind that. His only loss was to Andre, who was treated as some sort of amazing God. He halved Yusei's life points after having already beat two people in a row. He could have saved the world without a problem. He was just too cool to bother with that crap. If you stop to analyze how stupid the scenes are, it's hard to like them. OVER THE TOP ATLAS was great because he could get you to shut off your brain for a little while.

    As for JACK not being treated like Yusei's rival, I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm just explaining why I liked JACK during the Yoshida season.

    Also, you know, he didn't actually lose to the little kid. And it wasn't the little kid, it was kinda the devil using the little kid like a puppet.

    Now, I refute Crow having not changed. He simply never had a personality to start with, so it couldn't get derailed. Also Crow was always awful, so not changing from awful to more awful doesn't make him less terrible.
    Last edited by Detective; 07/02/11 at 03:21 PM.

  22. Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    The UK.
    Posts
    125
    Group
    Junior Member
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    No offense, but all of your post comes down to the fact that the you didn't like the over the top much and that we have different ideas of manliness. You consider him playing the card game well to be manly, but I think it's manlier to ride a motorcycle out of an explosion while shouting that JACK ATLAS SHALL NOT LOSE TO THE POWERS OF DARKNESS. Is it stupid? Yes. Is it amazing? Also yes.

    JACK's changes were pretty okay with me. Yes JACK removed a monster to get 600 damage. Uh...okay? I don't really mind that. His only loss was to Andre, who was treated as some sort of amazing God. He halved Yusei's life points after having already beat two people in a row. He could have saved the world without a problem. He was just too cool to bother with that crap. If you stop to analyze how stupid the scenes are, it's hard to like them. OVER THE TOP ATLAS was great because he could get you to shut off your brain for a little while.

    As for JACK not being treated like Yusei's rival, I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm just explaining why I liked JACK during the Yoshida season.

    Also, you know, he didn't actually lose to the little kid. And it wasn't the little kid, it was kinda the devil using the little kid like a puppet.

    Now, I refute Crow having not changed. He simply never had a personality to start with, so it couldn't get derailed. Also Crow was always awful, so not changing from awful to more awful doesn't make him less terrible.
    But that's the problem, and it's why I compared Yoshida to Michael Bay earlier. Yes, Yoshida wrote some pretty epic-looking scenes (SUN EXPLODING DELTA ACCEL SYNCHRO, Shooting Quasar's summon), but those scenes are diminished because when you watch them with the brain switched on, you start picking holes in the premise and it just fails. If Yoshida could keep his story level consistently good, he'd be quite a good writer, but he's incapable of bending his premise and plot to cope with Konami/whoever demanding stuff and he just really badly inserts stuff to try and cope (coughRagnarokcough).

    As for Crow, I rank his character right up there with Episode 149's BS troll moment in terms of 5D's stuff that annoyed me. Why does Crow exist? Because BF needs marketing... apparently. Urgh. He is fail on so many levels when you find out what Takahashi's original plans were. He's a freaking Stu one way or another. I actually, for some reason, decided to rewatch his intro episode the other day and I was like... 'I used to be okay with this guy?' He literally only exists past the end of Dark Signers so Konami can have BF marketing. That is the -sole- reason he's even there. And it. Is. Irritating. Particularly the sloppy writing which seems to surround his character like fog.

    Pearson: So I'm going to stash Blackfeather Dragon in this compartment on my D-Wheel which I don't even know is going to Crow, who I don't know will become a Signer, and I don't even know what that is, and I'm going to program said compartment to open in response to a supposedly mystical birthmark which shouldn't even go to Crow due to its rules and which I don't know exists.

    WTF?

    As for Max beating Jack, the point still stands that it's a little kid who beat him, Crimson Devil or not. Not to mention Yoshida somehow managed to completely miss the point of why Jack runs offense. He was a celebrity and an entertainer. He ran a Power Deck because playing defensively is boring. He needed to thrill the crowd and get them cheering him. What better way to do that than summon Red Demons Dragon and break a ton of face with it? Somehow Yoshida -completely- missed that point and managed to turn him into 'POWER POWER POWER'.

    And, oh god, Andre. Ditch your team already. Between Breo running Deck Destruction when he'd have to take out at least 105 cards (subtracting the total cards for the three hands), and 'END YOUR DAMN TURN' Jean... urgh. Just urgh, Andre. Why the hell are you teaming with these guys? Oh, yeah... I forgot the subtext.

  23. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Digidramon View Post
    But that's the problem, and it's why I compared Yoshida to Michael Bay earlier. Yes, Yoshida wrote some pretty epic-looking scenes (SUN EXPLODING DELTA ACCEL SYNCHRO, Shooting Quasar's summon), but those scenes are diminished because when you watch them with the brain switched on, you start picking holes in the premise and it just fails. If Yoshida could keep his story level consistently good, he'd be quite a good writer, but he's incapable of bending his premise and plot to cope with Konami/whoever demanding stuff and he just really badly inserts stuff to try and cope (coughRagnarokcough).

    As for Crow, I rank his character right up there with Episode 149's BS troll moment in terms of 5D's stuff that annoyed me. Why does Crow exist? Because BF needs marketing... apparently. Urgh. He is fail on so many levels when you find out what Takahashi's original plans were. He's a freaking Stu one way or another. I actually, for some reason, decided to rewatch his intro episode the other day and I was like... 'I used to be okay with this guy?' He literally only exists past the end of Dark Signers so Konami can have BF marketing. That is the -sole- reason he's even there. And it. Is. Irritating. Particularly the sloppy writing which seems to surround his character like fog.

    Pearson: So I'm going to stash Blackfeather Dragon in this compartment on my D-Wheel which I don't even know is going to Crow, who I don't know will become a Signer, and I don't even know what that is, and I'm going to program said compartment to open in response to a supposedly mystical birthmark which shouldn't even go to Crow due to its rules and which I don't know exists.

    WTF?

    As for Max beating Jack, the point still stands that it's a little kid who beat him, Crimson Devil or not. Not to mention Yoshida somehow managed to completely miss the point of why Jack runs offense. He was a celebrity and an entertainer. He ran a Power Deck because playing defensively is boring. He needed to thrill the crowd and get them cheering him. What better way to do that than summon Red Demons Dragon and break a ton of face with it? Somehow Yoshida -completely- missed that point and managed to turn him into 'POWER POWER POWER'.

    And, oh god, Andre. Ditch your team already. Between Breo running Deck Destruction when he'd have to take out at least 105 cards (subtracting the total cards for the three hands), and 'END YOUR DAMN TURN' Jean... urgh. Just urgh, Andre. Why the hell are you teaming with these guys? Oh, yeah... I forgot the subtext.
    Thing is, Yoshida is not Michael Bay. Michael Bay is pretty damn entertaining despite(or really, because of) being moronic. Whenever JACK got on screen, Yoshida went full Michael Bay in that the pretty lights really were pretty. But when Yusei was on screen(saved for the final duel vs zone) things were never truly over the top.

    With JACK, Yoshida managed to make us go "look at the pretty lights!" and succeed. With other characters, he went "look at the not so pretty lights." They weren't insane and/or over the top enough to make us go "this is so silly I'm actually enjoying it."

    As for Max, he was literally a puppet, and the duel didn't even finish. I don't really hate that moment. It was a moment to drive home the point that JACK needed to stop relying on power(...even though he never did until Yoshida took over).

    As for Andre, seriously. He should ditch his team.

    Andre:"Let me get this straight. I beat JACK FREAKING ATLAS, a PSYCHIC DUELIST, and HALVE Yusei's lifepoints...and you two combined still can't win? You two suck. I mean it."

    Seriously. Their team strategy was "let Andre beat everyone." I mean it makes sense considering how goddamn badass Andre is, but still.

  24. Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Futago Pass
    Posts
    1,903
    Group
    Senior Member
    Blog Entries
    37

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    Thing is, Yoshida is not Michael Bay. Michael Bay is pretty damn entertaining despite(or really, because of) being moronic. Whenever JACK got on screen, Yoshida went full Michael Bay in that the pretty lights really were pretty. But when Yusei was on screen(saved for the final duel vs zone) things were never truly over the top.

    With JACK, Yoshida managed to make us go "look at the pretty lights!" and succeed. With other characters, he went "look at the not so pretty lights." They weren't insane and/or over the top enough to make us go "this is so silly I'm actually enjoying it."
    Hold up here, you're confusing my position with something else. My position is never and was never "ham is bad". My position was, effectively, the lights were not pretty, Jack was not really all that badass, and as a result his character did suffer by becoming the go-to source of goofy. If it was only about ham levels being ramped up, I might have been able to take it. I love ham. I live on ham. GaoGaiGar FINAL is, like, one of my favorite anime OVA series ever, and it's wall-to-wall screaming ham that culminates in the main character crushing an alternate galaxy with a giant space hammer. TTGL is my blueprint for how to one-up yourself. One of my formative anime was Ginga Densetsu Weed, which is about dogs with a bizarre sense of Bushido and includes more badass-per-frame than an anime about a puppy should be allowed to have. (Damn it, Smith, you died a true dog ;; )

    That is not what Yoshida!Jack was, to me. Yoshida!Jack was a perversion of a character I had grown to actually enjoy, and it was really painful to witness, among other things:

    Jack: "You have to PAY to ride trains?" (Dark Signer arc's beginning)
    Jack: "I LIKE CUP RAMEN." (Pre-WRGP)
    Jack: "Did I mention I like cup ramen?" (Pre-WRGP)
    Jack: "Ohai, Max. -loses to a freaking butterfly combo-" (Crimson Devil)

    And most damningly?

    Jack. Removes. Red Daemon's. From the game. FOR SIX HUNDRED DAMAGE.

    How is that I don't even -_-



    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    As for Max, he was literally a puppet, and the duel didn't even finish. I don't really hate that moment. It was a moment to drive home the point that JACK needed to stop relying on power(...even though he never did until Yoshida took over).
    ...Why?

    No seriously, why did JACK have to restructure his whole strategy again? Because pre-Dark-Signer his stuff, while as all over the place as Yusei's, was still pretty interesting and solid as a deck. He had a couple of high-level monsters he could drop for easy set-ups for his ace, he had a number of really cool defense-hate cards, he even had a nice burn-damage ace. Hell, his solution to the battle-phase lock is about the most inefficient one I think he could have pulled (attempt to stall out the opponent and win by lame burn against a dedicated broken burn deck, nice thinking Jack). His solution isn't even how he actually solves the problem, his opponent just randomly trades in the lock for giant aztec dragon thing, which sets Jack up to pull more POWAR out of his arse. The arc was sloppily written, and totally invalidates its own admittedly awesome premise (Jack beats the devil by force of sheer will and makes him his slave).

    I dunno about you, but if the ending of TTGL had been preceded by an arc where Simon gets beaten in single combat by a twelve year old and is informed that Spiral Power is something he must fight without, I really wouldn't have found it as appealing. Badass messages need to actually be consistent to work as such :/

    ...And while I'm at it, Michael Bay is not nearly as fun to watch as people say he is, I can find the same ham per second in any number of sources that don't suffer from painful racism and dreck plotting and dialogue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Detective View Post
    As for Andre, seriously. He should ditch his team.

    Andre:"Let me get this straight. I beat JACK FREAKING ATLAS, a PSYCHIC DUELIST, and HALVE Yusei's lifepoints...and you two combined still can't win? You two suck. I mean it."

    Seriously. Their team strategy was "let Andre beat everyone." I mean it makes sense considering how goddamn badass Andre is, but still.
    Andre isn't really a badass, his opponents just have all the awesome sucked from them pre-match. That's the problem.

    Friendship is magic. Deal with it.




    Scarlet Weather Enterprises- Together, with the oath sworn by ponies.

    Mecha Miko Reimu theme by the lovely and talented Phani.



  25. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Why We Hate/Dislike Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarletWeather View Post
    Hold up here, you're confusing my position with something else. My position is never and was never "ham is bad". My position was, effectively, the lights were not pretty, Jack was not really all that badass, and as a result his character did suffer by becoming the go-to source of goofy. If it was only about ham levels being ramped up, I might have been able to take it. I love ham. I live on ham. GaoGaiGar FINAL is, like, one of my favorite anime OVA series ever, and it's wall-to-wall screaming ham that culminates in the main character crushing an alternate galaxy with a giant space hammer. TTGL is my blueprint for how to one-up yourself. One of my formative anime was Ginga Densetsu Weed, which is about dogs with a bizarre sense of Bushido and includes more badass-per-frame than an anime about a puppy should be allowed to have. (Damn it, Smith, you died a true dog ;; )

    That is not what Yoshida!Jack was, to me. Yoshida!Jack was a perversion of a character I had grown to actually enjoy, and it was really painful to witness, among other things:

    Jack: "You have to PAY to ride trains?" (Dark Signer arc's beginning)
    Jack: "I LIKE CUP RAMEN." (Pre-WRGP)
    Jack: "Did I mention I like cup ramen?" (Pre-WRGP)
    Jack: "Ohai, Max. -loses to a freaking butterfly combo-" (Crimson Devil)

    And most damningly?

    Jack. Removes. Red Daemon's. From the game. FOR SIX HUNDRED DAMAGE.

    How is that I don't even -_-





    ...Why?

    No seriously, why did JACK have to restructure his whole strategy again? Because pre-Dark-Signer his stuff, while as all over the place as Yusei's, was still pretty interesting and solid as a deck. He had a couple of high-level monsters he could drop for easy set-ups for his ace, he had a number of really cool defense-hate cards, he even had a nice burn-damage ace. Hell, his solution to the battle-phase lock is about the most inefficient one I think he could have pulled (attempt to stall out the opponent and win by lame burn against a dedicated broken burn deck, nice thinking Jack). His solution isn't even how he actually solves the problem, his opponent just randomly trades in the lock for giant aztec dragon thing, which sets Jack up to pull more POWAR out of his arse. The arc was sloppily written, and totally invalidates its own admittedly awesome premise (Jack beats the devil by force of sheer will and makes him his slave).

    I dunno about you, but if the ending of TTGL had been preceded by an arc where Simon gets beaten in single combat by a twelve year old and is informed that Spiral Power is something he must fight without, I really wouldn't have found it as appealing. Badass messages need to actually be consistent to work as such :/

    ...And while I'm at it, Michael Bay is not nearly as fun to watch as people say he is, I can find the same ham per second in any number of sources that don't suffer from painful racism and dreck plotting and dialogue.




    Andre isn't really a badass, his opponents just have all the awesome sucked from them pre-match. That's the problem.
    I think we just have really, really different kinds of ham we enjoy. I mean, yeah the moments you mentioned exist. But there are also moments like against Team Catastrophe, when JACK rode his motorcycle out of an explosion. Physics cried at that moment. There is also the time he beat up an entire gang.

    Eh, to me, Yoshida!JACK was great and the best character of the series. Well, not as good as the Original!Jack, but still pretty good and really damn entertaining. I can see why you wouldn't like him, but personally his goofiness didn't make me stop enjoying him.

  26. Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    World of Speed
    Posts
    3,216
    Group
    Staff

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

    After reading through this entire thread and taking into my own views of Yoshida's writing, I'm going with the view that Yoshida is best suited to older teen, young adult, seinen anime like his Karas, Speed Grapher, and Argento Soma. His style and technique is not too well suited for toyetic card game animes like Yugioh. I mean, I like the alchemical, metaphysical, and other philosophical references and such, but I also think he sometimes can't express such ideas too well. He had good ideas, but he sometimes seems to have trouble conveying them. But as for his role in Yugioh, I wouldn't entirely blame him for everything. I blame the entire Yugioh staff consisting of NAS and their partners in Konami.

    In other works regarding Yoshida, I am currently following an anime which he is writing alongside ZeXal titled Sacred Seven. It's more a seinen henshin hero anime, and it already has blatant mythological references. Its tagline is interestingly "People's memories will change the world." I am going to follow this alongside ZeXal and see how well he works with an anime targeted at a much older audience compared to one targeted at a much younger audience. If he does a better job with Sacred Seven, then I will guess that my viewpoint of Yoshida is probably correct. His stuff is better off with seinen audience than a shonen audience.


    ~AND THEN THEY BLEW THEIR BINGS~


  27. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    House of Wolves
    Posts
    10,312
    Group
    Moderator
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

    I don't think it's so much that he tried to throw dark themes into the series. That's... an entirely possible thing to do and it's been done before. It's that he tried to establish his own canon and ignore the actual plot. I wouldn't mind nearly as much if that didn't carry over to GX and 5D's, thus taking the franchis so far away from its established canon that it's pretty much impossible to get it back.



  28. Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    World of Speed
    Posts
    3,216
    Group
    Staff

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragna View Post
    I don't think it's so much that he tried to throw dark themes into the series. That's... an entirely possible thing to do and it's been done before. It's that he tried to establish his own canon and ignore the actual plot. I wouldn't mind nearly as much if that didn't carry over to GX and 5D's, thus taking the franchis so far away from its established canon that it's pretty much impossible to get it back.
    What I meant, if you were referring to me, is that some of his ideas just do not work well with toyetic card game anime.

    But yes. He did mess around with the canon of DM. However, Yoshida didn't work that much on GX. Junko (can't spell his last name) was the main writer for that series, so you can blame him for Duel Monsters playing Duel Monsters. Yoshida mainly worked on the last season with Mr. T, DAAAAAKKUNESSUUUUUUU, and such. And that was a short rushed arc, so I wouldn't say he messed with GX too much. GX from the beginning kinda started to drift away from the ancient Egyptian mythos established in DM. The same goes for 5D's.


    ~AND THEN THEY BLEW THEIR BINGS~


  29. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    House of Wolves
    Posts
    10,312
    Group
    Moderator
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

    You have to wonder if his one overused plot is not YGO friendly, then why doesn't he just... not use it again?

    I know he didn't work on GX. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that here, but my posts are starting to run together in my memory, so whatver. lol

    It was his story from DOMA that NAS ran with when making GX and it even slipped into 5D's. The Egyptian mythos being dropped isn't what my problem was.



  30. Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    World of Speed
    Posts
    3,216
    Group
    Staff

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragna View Post
    You have to wonder if his one overused plot is not YGO friendly, then why doesn't he just... not use it again?
    Yeah, stop using the same ancient Illuminati conspiracy plot over and over.

    I know he didn't work on GX. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that here, but my posts are starting to run together in my memory, so whatver. lol
    Hahaha, it happens in long threads.

    It was his story from DOMA that NAS ran with when making GX and it even slipped into 5D's. The Egyptian mythos being dropped isn't what my problem was.
    Which is why Yoshida himself should not take all the blame. The entire blame goes to the entire Yugioh staff including the director, other writers, producers, and Konami. Why had they chosen to follow along Yoshidanon?


    ~AND THEN THEY BLEW THEIR BINGS~


  31. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    House of Wolves
    Posts
    10,312
    Group
    Moderator
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

    I would also like to point out that those "Really epic scenes" are likely from Ono's mind. Going by what we saw from his twitter about the arc cradle duels, he lays out the outline and the writing teams fill it in. Yoshida is the kid who doesn't stay exactly in the lines because he likes to express himself and color stuff on the walls that he saw in his favorite shows. lol



  32. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Yeah, stop using the same ancient Illuminati conspiracy plot over and over.
    It's a cheap and easy way to economically justify card upgrades and allows villains to go with a magical setting. Every time it's weird magic shit, it's always an Conspiracy slash Cult, or they're from another Universe, from Manga and Anime I've read and seen recently. It's just a common cliche.

    Open, Bermuda Gate!

    #duelacademy_r2 on LJ & irc.darkmyst.org!

    Looking for new players to play Yu-Gi-Oh! Canon Characters or Original Characters.


  33. Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    House of Wolves
    Posts
    10,312
    Group
    Moderator
    Blog Entries
    10

    Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoArkadia View Post
    It's a cheap and easy way to economically justify card upgrades and allows villains to go with a magical setting. Every time it's weird magic shit, it's always an Conspiracy slash Cult, or they're from another Universe, from Manga and Anime I've read and seen recently. It's just a common cliche.
    ... but it's like, Yoshida's second favorite cliche. Second only to "The Darkness of the Heart".

    It's not even the re-use of the secret cult plotline, even. It's the way he recycles DOMA over and over and presents it as something new.



  34. Default Re: The Frequently Discussed Topic: Shin Yoshida's Writing

    To be fair, to Yoshida on that respect, a lot of authors do the same thing. Naoki Urasawa writes a man of humble means (A Grocery Store Clerk, A Disgraced Doctor, A Comic Book Artist, A Robotic Cop) being thrown into a covert conspiracy that spans decades if not millenia. Chiaki Konaka plays the same "Weird shit is going on under the surface of everything we know" card, generally. Dan Brown does "Weird Conspiracy Theory Shit". Akira Toriyama did action comedies. Etc etc etc.

    Open, Bermuda Gate!

    #duelacademy_r2 on LJ & irc.darkmyst.org!

    Looking for new players to play Yu-Gi-Oh! Canon Characters or Original Characters.


Moderation Tools (0)
+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 0 guests)

  1. Arynis

Similar Threads

  1. Yoshida's Failings
    By NeoKING in forum General Yugioh Discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04/29/11, 02:30 AM
  2. Urobuchi vs. Yoshida
    By kahunyu in forum General Anime Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02/19/11, 06:33 PM
  3. Long-term support for free SUSE Linux discussed
    By server@forum in forum Old / IT-News (RSS)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09/03/09, 03:00 PM
  4. Study says searching for screensavers frequently leads to danger
    By server@forum in forum Old / IT-News (RSS)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05/28/09, 02:00 PM
  5. List of Frequently Used Japanese Duel Terms
    By Primuler in forum The GX Anime
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 06/27/08, 05:44 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts