Yu-Gi-Oh! 10th Anniversary Movie ~Super Fusion! Bonds That Transcend Time~

[63cohen]

You don't have to jump on the guy for having a different opinion, dude. It would be jarring for some at least, to suddenly see Judai again, if they have no clue what happened to him for an entire season. Especially when it looks like he died.

Yeah, in the big scheme of things 4kids could obviously do it, and tack on a quick explanation for Judai's obvious change, but that's not just gonna magically make it all make sense or satisfy everyone's questions. The fact is, is that there's going to be a a whole season of plot and character development a majority of their "target audience" isn't going to know about. It's not going to make the movie incomprehensible, but it will raise a few eyebrows at least.

Seeing the three characters together is eyebrow raising enough, I think a little detail that most likely only appears in one scene is not going to change that much.

4Kids is dubbing it?

Worst news I heard all day.

Come on, it can't be that bad, I am sure you have been keeping up with the dub. If not, just check them out, and remember that 4kids will be doing it at least 5 times better. It is a movie after all.

[63cohen]

I am very sorry for the double post, I just got ninja'd

Dude, we're not ignoring what you're saying; we're just pissed off at the way this while thing has been handled. They made a bad decision that, while it can be fixed, they seem to refuse to do so. Even dubbing Episode 156 would bring Judai back with his new look, and Season 4 would be a bonus; but they ended the dub on a plot hole.

I do not think 4kids likes to go backwards, as no company does. Dubbing GX 4 would be taking a huge step backwards in terms of marketability, something 4kids, and no other company, would do. It would be better to dub the shit of a season, but that would be going backwards. What was done is done. You gotta keep going forward, and not go back.

[GoldenUmi]

Seeing the three characters together is eyebrow raising enough, I think a little detail that most likely only appears in one scene is not going to change that much.



Come on, it can't be that bad, I am sure you have been keeping up with the dub. If not, just check them out, and remember that 4kids will be doing it at least 5 times better. It is a movie after all.

I'm pretty sure you and I already had this discussion not that long ago. I did say I would at least check out the 5D's dub (which I haven't done yet).

I'll stick by my arguments as to why I can't support 4Kids. Rerwiting plot, changing names, changing the age group from Shonen teen level (which I am still too old for :X) to babies in their single digits, changing the original music, stupid pointless puns, pointless accents, mediocre voices (with the exception of a few VAs I like)... need I really go on?

I just don't understand how anyone who watches the original can defend these people so much. I have gotten a little softer with 4Kids since they at least acknowledge the original now, but until they start releasing proper uncut sets, I just can't support them.

I suppose I MAY change my mind after viewing the 5D's dub, but I doubt it. JACK with a British accent is a huge turn off right off the bat.

Anyway, the movie will probably be a little better like POL was (in terms of editing, not in plot) but they will still rewrite half the plot and change the music score.

And there is no justification at all for skipping an entire season just so they could get to 5D's faster. They should have at least aired GX and 5D's simultaneously.

[Lia]

I just don't understand how anyone who watches the original can defend these people so much. I have gotten a little softer with 4Kids since they at least acknowledge the original now, but until they start releasing proper uncut sets, I just can't support them.

FINALLY A JUDICIOUS PERSON HERE !!!
It'll be good if that "4KID'S are obliged to dub the 4th season of GX" whimperring is finally over, cuz it'll be beneficial for all true fans of the original anime if they DON'T do it !!!
Not to mention, AGAIN, that this HAS NOTHING TO DO with the topic of this theread !!!
So, BACK ON TOPIC please !!!

[63cohen]

And there is no justification at all for skipping an entire season just so they could get to 5D's faster. They should have at least aired GX and 5D's simultaneously.

I blame Konami for that.

... Besides, I thought the general concensous was that GX season 4 sucked scrooge balls.

[Arynis]

When Yugi's Dark Magician materialized to face Pandora's Dark Magician, they weren't in a Game of Darkness.

Furthermore, Dark Magician willed himself to be tributed for Ectoplasmer's effect to save Yugi's life, something Yugi did not tell him to do, because he didn't know about the effect to begin with.

And considering Pandora then saw his Dark Magician turn against him when Dark Magician Girl used her power to increase her attack via the Dark Magicians in the graveyard...that too would be another example.

There are several other examples too in the Doma arc, too. They don't just appear during a Game of Darkness.

That was more like the monsters acting more or less on their own, which is more related to the black box IC chips Pegasus made for the cards. I guess some Duel Monsters were special, possibly due to their ties to Ancient Egypt. Dark Magician was Mahado's ka whom he fused with. Dark Magician Girl was Mana's ka. And let's not forget Blue-Eyes, who did not follow its controller's order on a few ocassions (Kaiba vs Yugi, Dark Puppeteer vs Yugi, Possessed!Seto (Dark Priest) vs Atem) and just vanished. I assumed the technology itself does not have limits over the monster itself at all times. And then there's Kaiba's quote from the Pyramid of Light movie novel:

Still, even though I have the capability and the power of the Kaiba Corporation, I can’t develop new cards…I don’t believe in the myths that say that cards can’t be developed without ancient magic or magic powers. The contents of his black box-based IC chips are still a secret. That man holds the secrets of the development of Duel Monsters in his hands.

Kaiba did not believe in the fact that magic was involved in the card game's creation, and probably designed his Solid Vision/Duel Box technology with that mindset. After all, the Eye did use Pegasus as its pawn to get Duel Monsters revived, and we don't know exactly how he converted souls into computer data. And when the mystic mumbo jumbo part comes in, the technology falls before it, allowing it to be used as a medium for said monster.

As for Doma, didn't Dartz partially take over every company, including Kaiba Corporation? They could have easily abused the technology from its HQ to make the monsters go haywire. They are monsters who originally dwelt in people's hearts formerly locked into a stone slab, after all.

I blame Konami for that.

... Besides, I thought the general concensous was that GX season 4 sucked scrooge balls.

It was more like a Your Mileage May Vary consensus, no? I thought there was a thread in the GX forum about the Darkness arc sometime ago, and people weren't that negative about it.

FINALLY A JUDICIOUS PERSON HERE !!!
It'll be good if that "4KID'S are obliged to dub the 4th season of GX" whimperring is finally over, cuz it'll be beneficial for all true fans of the original anime if they DON'T do it !!!
Not to mention, AGAIN, that this HAS NOTHING TO DO with the topic of this theread !!!
So, BACK ON TOPIC please !!!

Eh, it's not like there's anything movie related going on right now (aside from the speculating) and both Nintendo World BBS and 2CH are rather low-key these days. And you know what they say about "true fans"... I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. XD

Some people are familiar with 5D's only, others only know GX and 5D's, some know only of DM, and so on. The younger generation knows of the recent series only, and probably know not too much about DM or even GX. And I'm talking about Japan here, judging by the discussion in the 2CH thread. (Someone didn't even know who Pegasus was. Really.)

[Ryusaki]

... Besides, I thought the general concensous was that GX season 4 sucked scrooge balls.

No more than the rest of GX.

[Arynis]

Uhm, Malik and his Ghouls are able to create copies of the cards that work, and they don't have technology to help them. In the manga canon the two things - the card game and the Ancient Egyptian shadow games that entrapped people's souls thanks to the Items powers- were totally distinct, blame the anime for messing this up (and the dub for further complicating this). When they're playing cards, damages are given because there are Shadow Games going on in the meanwhile and/or sadistic conditions to follow, but at least in the manga harmless children's card game is harmless.

Yeah, but counterfeit God Cards still resulted in people dying or getting severely injured. As for card copying, the Pyramid of Light movie says that only I2 can create official cards. I don't know how should be able to copy IC chip data, uh... Maybe they have the tools for extracting data and copying it into another chip? (Probably the same way Luciano copied Jack's Red Demons Dragon cards.) Also, I thought the Ghouls was an organization getting their hands on (legitimate) rare cards?

Pegasus still based the game on it. Both Ishizu and Pegasus state this.

I got the idea for Duel Monsters seven years ago, when I visited Egypt's Valley of the Kings. There's a legend that three thousand years ago, Egyptian magicians had to seal monsters in stone tablets... and summon them to fight battles in the Pharaoh's court. The magicians eventually died out, and the magic stone tablets fell asleep... deep below the earth. But the legend was recorded in the Book of Thoth... and passed down from generation to generation... eventually inspiring the Tarot cards! It's said that all card games sprang from this source! I created Duel Monsters to bring this ancient game to modern times, and now that we each face a worthy opponent, I may be able to recreate the ancient battles at last!

I don't have Ishizu's quote off-hand, but she mentions that Pegasus created the game because he went to Egypt. She also mentions how the monsters in the tablets were originally monsters lurking in the hearts of men, sealed into said stone tablets.

I didn't say Pegasus used the original tablets, just drew the inspiration from them and converted their data into an IC chip. Again, it's a black box, so god knows how it actually works. It's really just like an Evangelion Core, complete with a soul and all... You don't question the rest. XD

Blue-Eyes and Dark Magician were capable of doing what they did was because they were more powerful and potent than an avearge Joe's inner monster. Just like how the God cards can do all that they did.

[63cohen]

It was more like a Your Mileage May Vary consensus, no? I thought there was a thread in the GX forum about the Darkness arc sometime ago, and people weren't that negative about it.





Some people are familiar with 5D's only, others only know GX and 5D's, some know only of DM, and so on. The younger generation knows of the recent series only, and probably know not too much about DM or even GX. And I'm talking about Japan here, judging by the discussion in the 2CH thread. (Someone didn't even know who Pegasus was. Really.)[/FONT]

About the first part, ok then, I feel the international audiance will see it the same way

The second part proves who the target audiance is. Do you know how old the person who did not know who Pegasus was? Probably a kid, no older than who the target audiance is for here in America. Kids. I am not saying all of the users on 2chan are kids, that much is not true. But the audiance is kids and teens alike.

[Arynis]

About the first part, ok then, I feel the international audiance will see it the same way

The second part proves who the target audiance is. Do you know how old the person who did not know who Pegasus was? Probably a kid, no older than who the target audiance is for here in America. Kids. I am not saying all of the users on 2chan are kids, that much is not true. But the audiance is kids and teens alike.

No, I don't. Although it doesn't mean they are necessarily a kid - they could merely be a newcomer to the series as well. The 2CH thread surely had some adults, because I remember people mentioning their job or school issues (probably relating to when they would have time to check the movie out).

[GoldenUmi]

I blame Konami for that.

... Besides, I thought the general concensous was that GX season 4 sucked scrooge balls.

That's like saying international countries shouldn't have dubbed a TV show like say The X-Files' final season just because it was not quite as good as the rest of the series. An even better example would be if say the final season of DM was not as good as it was and they decided not to air that.

It makes no sense. The final season is what wraps the series up. 4Kids is the only dubbing company who would say "OH HO HO! I seez dis new series dat's gettin' some cash fer dose Japanese. DUR HUR, let's stop airing the current season and just start with that! HAR!"

Every dub company is in it for money, but most dub companies actually care about how their series is treated. Companies like FUNimation, VIZ and Geneon are good examples of this. I really wish 4Kids would lose the license so one of these fine companies could pick up the series, pick the good VA's from the 4Kids dub, replace the crappy ones, and rebub all the series and movies. But that's just a dream.

Okay, that's my 10 cents.

[63cohen]

That's like saying international countries shouldn't have dubbed a TV show like say The X-Files' final season just because it was not quite as good as the rest of the series. An even better example would be if say the final season of DM was not as good as it was and they decided not to air that.

It makes no sense. The final season is what wraps the series up. 4Kids is the only dubbing company who would say "OH HO HO! I seez dis new series dat's gettin' some cash fer dose Japanese. DUR HUR, let's stop airing the current season and just start with that! HAR!"

Every dub company is in it for money, but most dub companies actually care about how their series is treated. Companies like FUNimation, VIZ and Geneon are good examples of this. I really wish 4Kids would lose the license so one of these fine companies could pick up the series, pick the good VA's from the 4Kids dub, replace the crappy ones, and rebub all the series and movies. But that's just a dream.

Okay, that's my 10 cents.

I still see that most companies would love to jump ahead, for the audiance sake. Like in Bleach, I am sure quite a bit of fans want the dub to skip over some filer arcs, and who knows, Viz might do that for the money.

And to be honest, no one would pick up the license, because the Japanese have it in their minds that they want to license the show to the younger demographic in America because in reality, that is how they get the most out of the deal.

[DarkDust_Dragon]

I still see that most companies would love to jump ahead, for the audience sake. Like in Bleach, I am sure quite a bit of fans want the dub to skip over some filer arcs, and who knows, Viz might do that for the money.

And to be honest, no one would pick up the license, because the Japanese have it in their minds that they want to license the show to the younger demographic in America because in reality, that is how they get the most out of the deal.

There's adifference between skipping a few filler arcs and skipping a whole season plus one episode. That one episode would have made all the difference. Really, would one episode have taken so long?

[63cohen]

There's adifference between skipping a few filler arcs and skipping a whole season plus one episode. That one episode would have made all the difference. Really, would one episode have taken so long?

From what I have heard about season 4 GX, it was basically all filler except the last few episodes. (I have only seen a few)

But yes, if 4kids dubbed that last episode, it would have been a bit better. I do not remember thought, does that episode set up Trumen plot lines?

[Arynis]

From what I have heard about season 4 GX, it was basically all filler except the last few episodes. (I have only seen a few)

But yes, if 4kids dubbed that last episode, it would have been a bit better. I do not remember thought, does that episode set up Trumen plot lines?

156 went on how everyone returned from the Dimension World, Samejima and Chronos went over the missing student, Sho summed up the events of season 3. Then at the end, Sho sees Judai in the real world again. No, the Darkness arc plot wasn't touched upon in that episode.

Episode 157 is the first episode of the Darkness arc. Episode 156 was the last episode of the Dimension World arc, according to the Animation Book. So...yeah.

[63cohen]

156 went on how everyone returned from the Dimension World, Samejima and Chronos went over the missing student, Sho summed up the events of season 3. Then at the end, Sho sees Judai in the real world again. No, the Darkness arc plot wasn't touched upon in that episode.

Episode 157 is the first episode of the Darkness arc. Episode 156 was the last episode of the Dimension World arc, according to the Animation Book. So...yeah.

Thanks a lot.


ANd that picture in your avitar, you didn't use Photoshop did you? It looks a little bit off. But good skills regardless.

[Arynis]

Thanks a lot.


ANd that picture in your avitar, you didn't use Photoshop did you? It looks a little bit off. But good skills regardless.

I did use Photoshop. And thanks! XD

[63cohen]

I did use Photoshop. And thanks! XD

You must be rich LOL

[Arynis]

You must be rich LOL

Naaah. I just have my *cough* sources.

Anyway, I thought of this theory after I saw Slifer mentioning in her fanart that Paradox went "Pokeballs" on Stardust. The blank card Paradox used was to capture Stardust Dragon, indeed.

However, what if in the distant future, Duel Monsters went haywire and the monsters gained a real form in the world, allowing them to wreck havoc? Thus Paradox quickly developed / had someone develop the blank cards, allowing him to defend himself from the monster army. But he was just one man, and there was no way he could defend the entire world... the world got destroyed, people got killed. Paradox was left alone, he couldn't save the world and all the people. He forever carried the grief on his shoulders.

But if Paradox claimed humans destroy the enviroment and do sinful things, and still wanted to save that "hopeless future" with all those people... perhaps Paradox, in the very end, is an ultimate Dark Messiah?

[Makoeyes987]

That really doesn't make sense though, does it?

If Paradox is trying to save the future, by destroying the past, knowing that said actions are going to destroy the future...why would he do it?

Furthermore, if he says humans are destined to destroy the future anyways, and that he'll destroy everything, how then is he justifying his actions which contradict his claim of saving the future?

If we just take the fact that Paradox is trying to save his future at face value, it doesn't make sense at all. Either Paradox is truly out of his mind, or he is literally a paradox in and of himself.

[YaminoRPG]

That really doesn't make sense though, does it?

If Paradox is trying to save the future, by destroying the past, knowing that said actions are going to destroy the future...why would he do it?

Furthermore, if he says humans are destined to destroy the future anyways, and that he'll destroy everything, how then is he justifying his actions which contradict his claim of saving the future?

If we just take the fact that Paradox is trying to save his future at face value, it doesn't make sense at all. Either Paradox is truly out of his mind, or he is literally a paradox in and of himself.

Maybe he doesn't realizes the temporal paradox he causes.

[Makoeyes987]

That's basically what my theory is, and the best way to resolve it. Paradox is the cause for his future's destruction because he's a temporal paradox himself. His actions prompt his future self to go into the past to destroy it, thus causing a cyclical loop that is only stopped when the YGO heroes actually stop him.

Because we're not given any explanation as to how or why the future is being destroyed, save for him. And when he fuses with Sin Truth Dragon, he just goes progressively bonkers and resolves to erase everything. So yeah.

[YaminoRPG]

That's basically what my theory is, and the best way to resolve it. Paradox is the cause for his future's destruction because he's a temporal paradox himself. His actions prompt his future self to go into the past to destroy it, thus causing a cyclical loop that is only stopped when the YGO heroes actually stop him.

Because we're not given any explanation as to how or why the future is being destroyed, save for him. And when he fuses with Sin Truth Dragon, he just goes progressively bonkers and resolves to erase everything. So yeah.

This is my theory. I take my system of time from "the haunting of Thomas Brewster" by Big Finish

In that play the dimension of the monster is one possible timeline that CAN come into being, and due to a temporal paradox the alien is given a chance of making its reality THE reality.

So paradox is from a POTENTIAL time line which he thinks is the REAL timeline. The tragedy is by going back in time to stop his timeline happening he actually makes it from a potential to a reality.

[Makoeyes987]

This is my theory. I take my system of time from "the haunting of Thomas Brewster" by Big Finish

In that play the dimension of the monster is one possible timeline that CAN come into being, and due to a temporal paradox the alien is given a chance of making its reality THE reality.

So paradox is from a POTENTIAL time line which he thinks is the REAL timeline. The tragedy is by going back in time to stop his timeline happening he actually makes it from a potential to a reality.

Well, my theory didn't have the whole "potential vs. reality" theme in it. It was just a time loop/predestination paradox that got cut via the heroes. XD

Very interesting though. I never heard of that story. Sounds interesting.

[YaminoRPG]

Well, my theory didn't have the whole "potential vs. reality" theme in it. It was just a time loop/predestination paradox that got cut via the heroes. XD

Very interesting though. I never heard of that story. Sounds interesting.

Its a Doctor Who audio play
http://www.bigfinish.com/107-Doctor-...homas-Brewster

[Arynis]

This is my theory. I take my system of time from "the haunting of Thomas Brewster" by Big Finish

In that play the dimension of the monster is one possible timeline that CAN come into being, and due to a temporal paradox the alien is given a chance of making its reality THE reality.

So paradox is from a POTENTIAL time line which he thinks is the REAL timeline. The tragedy is by going back in time to stop his timeline happening he actually makes it from a potential to a reality.

So basically he traveled back in time and ended up in a parallel universe to his own future (which is coincidentally the heroes' timeline)?

But this doesn't make sense. It would dictate that travelling back in time means actually traveling into a parallel universe, but it would also mean everyone else does the same - meaning that Yusei would never be able to follow Paradox, nor the protagonists could meet up at all.

Unless I misunderstood your explanation. To be fair, it sounds a little confusing to me. >.< Or is this different from the time travel rules and talks about probability instead?

And Makoeyes, I wanted to reply to your post and was preparing Paradox's statements, but Google Translator gave me this gem (I wanted to check the parts Heleentje couldn't get right):

Paradoxe: What is man? Will continue to destroy the environment, disputes, mutual hatred, discrimination, ugly creatures! This world must be corrected!

...

...



WE HAVE A WINNAR. 8D

(I couldn't help it, I'm sorry. XD)

[YaminoRPG]

Ok let me try answer this using the thomas brewster play version

Due to a "bump" in time (so lets say a random event) the possibility of time line Y came into being. However people at some point in that time-line realized its entire existence was due to an event in time line X, so go back in time, crossing the time track to make sure the event in timeline X actually happens, thus making the potential a reality. The play suggested the timeline would have faded away otherwise if the link was broken. In fact at the point the alien went back in time their universe was horribly corrupted due to breaking away from time.

So in the movie lets say Zero reversal created a bump in time. Our time line continued but a potential one, born out of a reasonable probability was also brought into being. However for this time line to survive it needed to be intergrated into the time line by going to the time of the event or similar to make sure the probability increased to a point that it becomes higher than existing time line.

Now heres some potentials if we use this system
1. paradox's world is destroyed because it was never properly intergrated onto the web of time. It corroded, corrupted, dissolved. What was left was a barren wasteland soon to be nothing. This is supported by the timelines fading away when he altered them. Paradox goes back in time to make his timeline properly adopted into the web of time, thus allowing his future to exist and also "saving it". Without the corrupted caused by being not part of the web of time, the corrosion never happened.

2. If Paradox didnt realize this fix time thing, his going back in time could be the very act which lowered the percentage of his time line existing thus causing its corruption.

Hope that clears things up. i admit it is a difficult time theory to grasp.

[Makoeyes987]

So basically he traveled back in time and ended up in a parallel universe to his own future (which is coincidentally the heroes' timeline)?

But this doesn't make sense. It would dictate that travelling back in time means actually traveling into a parallel universe, but it would also mean everyone else does the same - meaning that Yusei would never be able to follow Paradox, nor the protagonists could meet up at all.

Unless I misunderstood your explanation. To be fair, it sounds a little confusing to me. >.< Or is this different from the time travel rules and talks about probability instead?

And Makoeyes, I wanted to reply to your post and was preparing Paradox's statements, but Google Translator gave me this gem (I wanted to check the parts Heleentje couldn't get right):

Paradoxe: What is man? Will continue to destroy the environment, disputes, mutual hatred, discrimination, ugly creatures! This world must be corrected!

...

...



WE HAVE A WINNAR. 8D

(I couldn't help it, I'm sorry. XD)

ROTFLMAO, OH GOD THATS WIN. I want to play that game JUST TO SEE that cutscene in context XD

[Arynis]

Ah, I think I get it now. Thanks, YaminoRPG. :]

As for the whole dimension corruption issue, I had a theory earlier, but I didn't seem to get too much feedback on it. I'm wondering about what you guys think.

I have been thinking about the whole dimension disintegration issue seen in the movie, and why does it disappear suddenly. I might have brought up this theory before, so I might be repeating myself here. I guess I'll just write it down (again), then.

What I am thinking is that the integration did not disappear because of Paradox's defeat. After Paradox takes Stardust and travels into the past, Aki takes photos of the ruined Venice to Yusei and co, implying that the events in the timeline took place simultaneously. So basically Paradox did something in the past that caused the dimension to disintegrate - that is, killing Pegasus in Domino City and initating a Grandfather Paradox.

When Yusei got to Venice, that could be "catching up to" Paradox in that specific timeframe, but as soon as he travelled to the past (thus quitting the timeframe), whatever he did in the past already applied to the future, thus the disintegration of Venice.

Then we see the DM period, where Paradox kills Pegasus in the past, thus this change immediately affecting the future. Then the Crimson Dragon comes in and brings Yugi back in time/rewinds time, the three protagonists unite and intercept Paradox. But because they stopped Paradox before he could kill Pegasus, (and the fact that dragging him into the duel changed how the future played out) thus the integration stopped/reversed in the future.

Of course, this theory has some flaws. the summary mentions how people speak of Pegasus' death and how dueling will become a myth. If the world was disintegrating because of Pegasus' death, then these conversations may have not been possible. However, those conversations could have happened shortly after Pegasus' death.

Pegasus died? From now on, dueling will be just a strange myth?
The three mysterious dragons attacking the city... It was so Pegasus would die?

I'm not sure if this may have been said by random people or by Yusei and Judai, nor I'm sure about the nature of this particular flashback from just going by the summary. Considering how the disintegration didn't happen right away (Delayed Ripple Effect, perhaps?), it may have been possible for this kind of dialogue before everything went bad.

So basically: The dimension disintegration happened because Paradox killed Pegasus - as soon as the past was altered, the integration stopped/reversed, but every other event stayed as it was. (Venice getting destroyed, Stardust being stolen by Paradox, etc.)

ROTFLMAO, OH GOD THATS WIN. I want to play that game JUST TO SEE that cutscene in context XD

I KNOW RIGHT? XD I died at that realization, lol.

Paradox wanted to make a world of dragon slaves. B)b Plus Pegasus as a cushion.

[YaminoRPG]

Did you consider it only disapeared before the eyes of the people who saw "time changing". Yusei etc saw paradox go back in time and the event that change history. As a result they became part of the alien timeline. The disappearing may not be their timeline as such but their own removal from it. They faid away as they are incompatable with the timeline as they are part of the paradox. Meanwhile Neo Domino exists still, but has become a potential.

[Makoeyes987]

I think we'd need to see who actually said that first to be sure, but don't the heroes say that the future/reality/dimension or whatever is disintegrating because Paradox is specifically taking things from the future, to the past, and thus altering time? As in, because of Paradox "corrupting" the future, the future is now being destroyed? I thought that's what Aki said or something.

I'm sure Paradox killing Pegasus was finally the straw that broke the camel's back, but I thought it was everything Paradox did. Him creating a paradox, was the threat to the future.

[YaminoRPG]

Heres an idea. Maybe Pegasus was killed and Duel monsters never became the macanics for war, instead military technology was used. The world was prety much wiped out and Paradox was born after the conflict with mankind dying out. Knowledge was lost and man rebuilt history from scraps it found. Sadly this history was false, and from the scraps gathered the popular belief was Duel Monsters had caused the conflict (where as in fact it had died out prior to), possibly because of the termonology dueling and history of KC being misrepresented. Using cards he found from various ruins he built a deck and went to kill pegasus, thus causing the temporal paradox.

I love the idea of a false history being created after Armageddon.

[Arynis]

Did you consider it only disapeared before the eyes of the people who saw "time changing". Yusei etc saw paradox go back in time and the event that change history. As a result they became part of the alien timeline. The disappearing may not be their timeline as such but their own removal from it. They faid away as they are incompatable with the timeline as they are part of the paradox. Meanwhile Neo Domino exists still, but has become a potential.

Hmm... that is an interesting possibility, yeah.

I think we'd need to see who actually said that first to be sure, but don't the heroes say that the future/reality/dimension or whatever is disintegrating because Paradox is specifically taking things from the future, to the past, and thus altering time? As in, because of Paradox "corrupting" the future, the future is now being destroyed? I thought that's what Aki said or something.

I'm sure Paradox killing Pegasus was finally the straw that broke the camel's back, but I thought it was everything Paradox did. Him creating a paradox, was the threat to the future.

I looked up the lines again from that scene:

Jack assumes that past history has been rewritten, so the city will disappear. (Google translation - Heleentje's translation says "going back in time changes history")

Actually... they are quite different. (To be honest, I didn't check Google Translate for the entire script. I might go through the summary again with Heleen and with the translator.) Jack assumes that Paradox did something in the past that caused history to change, which results in Neo Domino City disappearing. This seems to support my theory instead.

And Yusei just assumes that it's Paradox behind the event.

[Makoeyes987]

Wait, so which is it? XD

What exactly happened, and what did the characters say?

Because yeah, it seems that Paradox's changing of the past, has disastrous repercussions on the timeline. I.E. Something was changed.

[YaminoRPG]

Wait, so which is it? XD

What exactly happened, and what did the characters say?

Because yeah, it seems that Paradox's changing of the past, has disastrous repercussions on the timeline. I.E. Something was changed.

You can't have consequences if a time was wiped out as it being wiped out meant it never happened and thus there is no consequence ^_^

[Arynis]

Wait, so which is it? XD

What exactly happened, and what did the characters say?

Because yeah, it seems that Paradox's changing of the past, has disastrous repercussions on the timeline. I.E. Something was changed.

Heleen says it's the Google Translator one, as she hasn't known about passive sentences back then, causing the mix-up.

As for the scene itself:

Outside the sky's gone black, and the landscape has started deteriorating
Jack: This is only my assumption, past history has been rewritten, so the city will disappear
Yuusei assumes this is Paradox's fault (Paradox: you will perish together with this era)
The five marks light up and the mark gets transferred to Yuusei's back
Yuusei: Crimson Dragon just called me!
Yuusei follows Crimson Dragon on his D-Wheel!
Yuusei: Crimson Dragon, bring me to where Stardust went!
Yuusei and Crimson Dragon disappear together
(The others take refuge)

Heres an idea. Maybe Pegasus was killed and Duel monsters never became the macanics for war, instead military technology was used. The world was prety much wiped out and Paradox was born after the conflict with mankind dying out. Knowledge was lost and man rebuilt history from scraps it found. Sadly this history was false, and from the scraps gathered the popular belief was Duel Monsters had caused the conflict (where as in fact it had died out prior to), possibly because of the termonology dueling and history of KC being misrepresented. Using cards he found from various ruins he built a deck and went to kill pegasus, thus causing the temporal paradox.

I love the idea of a false history being created after Armageddon.

That's a pretty neat idea. I like it!

You can't have consequences if a time was wiped out as it being wiped out meant it never happened and thus there is no consequence ^_^

Ah, fff. Time Travel Tense Trouble!

[Makoeyes987]

Ahh okay. So yeah, that makes sense. Paradox's actions basically have a "ripple effect" throughout time, which eventually leads to the future basically being destroyed and all, thanks to him basically changing the past, and killing Pegasus.

But that still means, Paradox could basically be the cause of his own future's problems, and be the paradoxical cause of his future being destroyed. Instead of just a series of actions, its his one action that caused it.

[Arynis]

Ahh okay. So yeah, that makes sense. Paradox's actions basically have a "ripple effect" throughout time, which eventually leads to the future basically being destroyed and all, thanks to him basically changing the past, and killing Pegasus.

But that still means, Paradox could basically be the cause of his own future's problems, and be the paradoxical cause of his future being destroyed. Instead of just a series of actions, its his one action that caused it.

Yeah, it's a Ripple Effect. Delayed Ripple Effect, even.

...Or Paradox is essentially the Time Devourer. He keeps ****ing up his own timelines but regenerates from another one, starting his job over again. XD It's Chrono Chross all over again, but with card games, seriously.

[YaminoRPG]

Ahh okay. So yeah, that makes sense. Paradox's actions basically have a "ripple effect" throughout time, which eventually leads to the future basically being destroyed and all, thanks to him basically changing the past, and killing Pegasus.

But that still means, Paradox could basically be the cause of his own future's problems, and be the paradoxical cause of his future being destroyed. Instead of just a series of actions, its his one action that caused it.

Otherwise known as a time loop. I think this is quite possibly the writers intention.

[Allana]

Heres an idea. Maybe Pegasus was killed and Duel monsters never became the macanics for war, instead military technology was used. The world was prety much wiped out and Paradox was born after the conflict with mankind dying out. Knowledge was lost and man rebuilt history from scraps it found. Sadly this history was false, and from the scraps gathered the popular belief was Duel Monsters had caused the conflict (where as in fact it had died out prior to), possibly because of the termonology dueling and history of KC being misrepresented. Using cards he found from various ruins he built a deck and went to kill pegasus, thus causing the temporal paradox.

I love the idea of a false history being created after Armageddon.

A very interesting idea ! It is really good !

About Castlevania, time manipulation is use in Dawn of Sorrow: It's the time stopping. After he had beaten Zephyr, Soma acquieres his power which consists to stop the time during a short period. Himself can move but nobody around him.

Really good new signature Arynis ! Pegasus's search poster is very good designed, the alive strike is the best !

[Lia]

I don't have much time to read all posts in details, so do we alredy know what's the translation of the interview with Kazuki Takahashi ?

[Arynis]

Really good new signature Arynis ! Pegasus's search poster is very good designed, the alive strike is the best !

XD Thanks Allana.

I don't have much time to read all posts in details, so do we alredy know what's the translation of the interview with Kazuki Takahashi ?

No, not yet. I'll have to ask my friend on the progress.

[Lia]

No, not yet. I'll have to ask my friend on the progress.

Aha, ok.....thanks after all.
BTW, awesome sig. xD

[DarkDust_Dragon]

I looked up the lines again from that scene:

Jack assumes that past history has been rewritten, so the city will disappear. (Google translation - Heleentje's translation says "going back in time changes history")

Actually... they are quite different. (To be honest, I didn't check Google Translate for the entire script. I might go through the summary again with Heleen and with the translator.) Jack assumes that Paradox did something in the past that caused history to change, which results in Neo Domino City disappearing. This seems to support my theory instead.

And Yusei just assumes that it's Paradox behind the event.

Except doesn't everything we've seen before about Time Travel state that only Time Travelers themselves are aware of time changing? Jack shouldn't have been able to tell history was changed because he'd become part of the new timeline. The only way it makes sense is if time isn't changed, but reality is damaged.

My theory goes back to the whole 12 Dimensions arc in Season 3 of GX. We only saw what, 5 of the worlds at best. The World of Darkness isn't one of them, but its own place of existence, so that's 7 worlds which are open to interpretation. When Yubel tried to fuse them, things in all the Dimensions started to fall apart (glass shattering in the human world, Haou's castle sinking into lava, Yubel's tower starting to crumble). This shows us that the worlds are frail, and that it takes very little to make them fall apart. Changes in the timeline thus wouldn't change the future; they'd just make it cease. In that instance, instead of changing history as he planned, Paradox would have simply been destroying everything very slowly and would have had no idea what was going on until it was too late to fix.

The process of Fusing the worlds had already started back then, and was only stopped but not necessarily reversed. Perhaps Yubel's actions were the first to muddle the dimensional barriers; and in Paradox's time, all creatures became real. Not knowing what had happened, Paradox figured that Duel Monsters was to blame and went back to the source, hoping to fix it. It's a completely asinine theory I know, but it makes some sense if you think about it.

[Allana]

Except doesn't everything we've seen before about Time Travel state that only Time Travelers themselves are aware of time changing? Jack shouldn't have been able to tell history was changed because he'd become part of the new timeline. The only way it makes sense is if time isn't changed, but reality is damaged.

My theory goes back to the whole 12 Dimensions arc in Season 3 of GX. We only saw what, 5 of the worlds at best. The World of Darkness isn't one of them, but its own place of existence, so that's 7 worlds which are open to interpretation. When Yubel tried to fuse them, things in all the Dimensions started to fall apart (glass shattering in the human world, Haou's castle sinking into lava, Yubel's tower starting to crumble). This shows us that the worlds are frail, and that it takes very little to make them fall apart. Changes in the timeline thus wouldn't change the future; they'd just make it cease. In that instance, instead of changing history as he planned, Paradox would have simply been destroying everything very slowly and would have had no idea what was going on until it was too late to fix.

The process of Fusing the worlds had already started back then, and was only stopped but not necessarily reversed. Perhaps Yubel's actions were the first to muddle the dimensional barriers; and in Paradox's time, all creatures became real. Not knowing what had happened, Paradox figured that Duel Monsters was to blame and went back to the source, hoping to fix it. It's a completely asinine theory I know, but it makes some sense if you think about it.

If I follow your idea, you think Duel Monsters who had destroy Paradox's time came from Yubel's attempt to fuse 12 Dimensions ? So, Paradox ignoring this, thinks It's the game created by Pegasus the responsible when It isn't Duel Monsters the responsible but the dimensions who are partially failed by Super Fusion.

Personnally, I have some difficulties with theses dimensions, they seems me complicate by their appareance, meanning, what they bring...

[DarkDust_Dragon]

If I follow your idea, you think Duel Monsters who had destroy Paradox's time came from Yubel's attempt to fuse 12 Dimensions ? So, Paradox ignoring this, thinks It's the game created by Pegasus the responsible when It isn't Duel Monsters the responsible but the dimensions who are partially failed by Super Fusion.

Personnally, I have some difficulties with theses dimensions, they seems me complicate by their appareance, meanning, what they bring...

If I'm right, then the creatures summoned in Paradox's timeframe would have become the real ones from the alternate dimensions instead of Solid Vision, without anyone's knowledge. Paradox would not have known this happened and thought Duel Monsters itself was the problem; or perhaps he did know, and thought is Duel Monsters ceased to exist the so too would Yubel. So yes, you have my basic premise.

[Arynis]

Aha, ok.....thanks after all.
BTW, awesome sig. xD

Thanks. XD

Except doesn't everything we've seen before about Time Travel state that only Time Travelers themselves are aware of time changing? Jack shouldn't have been able to tell history was changed because he'd become part of the new timeline. The only way it makes sense is if time isn't changed, but reality is damaged.

I'm not sure what do you exactly mean here... Do you mean the Time Traveler's Immunity?

Spoiler: Time Traveler's Immunity snippet

Now, how does Chrono Trigger avoid the Grandfather Paradox is these examples? The answer is simple: time travelers are immune to the changes they make in the past, and the Grandfather Paradox simply does not exist. Crono can change the future so that he will never see the Day of Lavos recording and never be motivated to change the future, but this does not matter. Crono exerts his own free will to change history; he remembers each act he performed, even if these acts would preclude his necessity to perform them. While non-time travelers will always see the bright and happy future, Crono and his group can clearly remember the ruined future and their actions to remedy it. Crono's actions are preserved in time; if you went back to 600 A.D. a little before Crono came in to give the Jerky to the elder's wife, you could clearly observe him emerge from a Gate and give the elder's wife Jerky. No matter how time travelers drastically change history (even their personal history), they are exempt from the effects. Consider the Principle of Discarded Timelines above; the very presence of Crono in the past would change history, if only by his miniscule exertion of gravity on the particles of the world. Yet Crono remains the same person while traveling through time!

The unifying principle behind Time Traveler's Immunity is that once an entity travels through time, he or she is disconnected from the original timeline by changing history (past or future), and causality and consequences are resultingly broken.

However, there's nothing on people who witness the consequences of a change in the past. And more importantly, Jack is making an assumption here. He didn't say that's what is happening, he just made a guess. Nothing is saying he is right.

My theory goes back to the whole 12 Dimensions arc in Season 3 of GX. We only saw what, 5 of the worlds at best. The World of Darkness isn't one of them, but its own place of existence, so that's 7 worlds which are open to interpretation. When Yubel tried to fuse them, things in all the Dimensions started to fall apart (glass shattering in the human world, Haou's castle sinking into lava, Yubel's tower starting to crumble). This shows us that the worlds are frail, and that it takes very little to make them fall apart. Changes in the timeline thus wouldn't change the future; they'd just make it cease. In that instance, instead of changing history as he planned, Paradox would have simply been destroying everything very slowly and would have had no idea what was going on until it was too late to fix.

The process of Fusing the worlds had already started back then, and was only stopped but not necessarily reversed. Perhaps Yubel's actions were the first to muddle the dimensional barriers; and in Paradox's time, all creatures became real. Not knowing what had happened, Paradox figured that Duel Monsters was to blame and went back to the source, hoping to fix it. It's a completely asinine theory I know, but it makes some sense if you think about it.

Hmm, so you are saying the future got destroyed because the dimensions were instable thanks to Yubel? That is an interesting possibility. The cards, in a sense, are a gateway to said Duel Monsters dimension... Or we could see it this way (although I don't think this was explained well in the manga - someone reassure/correct me):

Some monsters from people's hearts got sealed into tablets, and then were used for combat with the aid of magic (Millennium Items). We know the monster and the human soul may have been separate, but more or less connected. The monster getting destroyed would injure the summoner in question, but the bond isn't close enough to cause the death of the person (eg. in Kisara's case, where her soul was fused with the BEWD). Also, Mahado was able to fuse himself with his Black Magician spirit, which implies the monster and the human soul are not completely one. Maybe people who died under normal circumstances (or didn't have their monster extracted) had their human soul go to the afterlife (which should exist in the YGOverse, or else Pegasus going to Egypt for Cyndia wouldn't make sense) while the monster part went to their special world (the Dimension World).

Alternately, just as how there were the Incans with the Earthbound Gods and the Egyptians with their Egyptian Gods, there may have been different viewpoints. Perhaps they didn't consider the monster part a separate entity, but their special space did indeed exist. After all, these monsters are tied to the origin of the world.

Darkness mentions in GX Episode 177 that Duel Monsters is the origin of the world, and when humans discovered it, it would be a touchstone to test the souls of humans, a mirror to reflect their souls. This corresponds with the monsters representing the personality of the person they reside in.

So depending on either interpretation, the monster in a sense is "energy" which took up the shape of their owner's personality.

(Although if the manga did explain the whole ka/ba/monster/human business, then I don't know about it.)

Also, XYZ Dragon Cannon's summary did mention that the movie flashed to the world being destroyed by Duel Monsters, or at least Paradox remembering its power. There's no footage or screenshots of this bit, so we will have to wait for the specifics. And the scene with the cards falling into the red planet, causing it to turn from red to blue. Final Fantasy 9 reference? XYZ notes here -which is his own personal note- that "this is the blue star and the origin of life", possibly alluding to the scene where Darkness tells about the origins of the world.

[DarkDust_Dragon]

There's nothing on people who witness the consequences of a change in the past. And more importantly, Jack is making an assumption here. He didn't say that's what is happening, he just made a guess. Nothing is saying he is right.

My point is that is history changed, he would become part of the changed future. He would have no idea the original existed, so would not be able to recognize that time changed.

Hmm, so you are saying the future got destroyed because the dimensions were unstable thanks to Yubel? That is an interesting possibility. The cards, in a sense, are a gateway to said Duel Monsters dimension... Or we could see it this way (although I don't think this was explained well in the manga - someone reassure/correct me):

Some monsters from people's hearts got sealed into tablets, and then were used for combat with the aid of magic (Millennium Items). We know the monster and the human soul may have been separate, but more or less connected. The monster getting destroyed would injure the summoner in question, but the bond isn't close enough to cause the death of the person (eg. in Kisara's case, where her soul was fused with the BEWD). Also, Mahado was able to fuse himself with his Black Magician spirit, which implies the monster and the human soul are not completely one. Maybe people who died under normal circumstances (or didn't have their monster extracted) had their human soul go to the afterlife (which should exist in the YGOverse, or else Pegasus going to Egypt for Cyndia wouldn't make sense) while the monster part went to their special world (the Dimension World).

Alternately, just as how there were the Incans with the Earthbound Gods and the Egyptians with their Egyptian Gods, there may have been different viewpoints. Perhaps they didn't consider the monster part a separate entity, but their special space did indeed exist. After all, these monsters are tied to the origin of the world.

Darkness mentions in GX Episode 177 that Duel Monsters is the origin of the world, and when humans discovered it, it would be a touchstone to test the souls of humans, a mirror to reflect their souls. This corresponds with the monsters representing the personality of the person they reside in.

So depending on either interpretation, the monster in a sense is "energy" which took up the shape of their owner's personality.

(Although if the manga did explain the whole ka/ba/monster/human business, then I don't know about it.)

Also, XYZ Dragon Cannon's summary did mention that the movie flashed to the world being destroyed by Duel Monsters, or at least Paradox remembering its power. There's no footage or screenshots of this bit, so we will have to wait for the specifics. And the scene with the cards falling into the red planet, causing it to turn from red to blue. Final Fantasy 9 reference? XYZ notes here -which is his own personal note- that "this is the blue star and the origin of life", possibly alluding to the scene where Darkness tells about the origins of the world.

There's no reason our theories can't both be true. Duel Monsters, being the origin of the world, has taken many forms. The first recorded ones are what Dartz mentions from Atlantis and from what Yubel mentions of Neo Space (though we never learn when that was, I'm assuming it's quite some time). Whether the cards are a gateway or the people are, damage from the Yubel Incident could have created that kind of overlap.

[Arynis]

My point is that is history changed, he would become part of the changed future. He would have no idea the original existed, so would not be able to recognize that time changed.

Oh, right.

There's no reason our theories can't both be true. Duel Monsters, being the origin of the world, has taken many forms. The first recorded ones are what Dartz mentions from Atlantis and from what Yubel mentions of Neo Space (though we never learn when that was, I'm assuming it's quite some time). Whether the cards are a gateway or the people are, damage from the Yubel Incident could have created that kind of overlap.

I wasn't saying it can't be true, I tried to support the "monster world" parts of GX and Doma somehow, since most people jump at it and claim that GX wrecked DM's monster canon or anything like that when it can make sense somehow, actually*. (Okay, I can't justify Duel Monsters playing Duel Monsters, unless I think of something like string theory... but let's not go there. XD)

* Makes sense to me, anyhow. >.>;

[tori_yugio4ever]

Just to make sure I'm on the right track, 4kids is going to dub the YGO 10th anniversary movie right? So does that mean that there isn't going to be any explaination for what happened to Judai/Jaden?