Yu-Gi-Oh! 10th Anniversary Movie ~Super Fusion! Bonds That Transcend Time~

[63cohen]

Main characters. Minor characters can stay dead as many as needed.

Demark is kinda minor, yet he came back. Other than him, I can see what you mean. Pandora almost died though.

[DarkDust_Dragon]

Demark is kinda minor, yet he came back. Other than him, I can see what you mean. Pandora almost died though.

As I mentioned earlier, Amon and Echo stayed dead after Season 3 of GX. As pointed out in TVTropes, for all we know Placido claimed many lives during his hissy fit against Yusei. Dartz is dead, having lost his body; and we never see from Grerimo or whatever his name was again after Episode 2 of Doma.

[Arynis]

Yeah, I did know about the exact manner of Kanekura's death, in Pegasus' case it's probably just blood loss, but I thought the thief had burned alive. Is this another reference to future series, about him becoming good?

Pegasus' death is really just ambiguous. It's never outright stated if it was blood loss. It could have been Bakura giving him some kind of a Penalty Game. Takahashi did mention that Bakura assassinated him. By what means, however, was something he did not mention or elaborate on.

Here's what the Japanese Wikipedia writes about Pegasus' death. The Japanese Wikipedia is deemed quite accurate as far as Yu-Gi-Oh! is concerned.

After the final battle, he has his Millennium Eye gouged out by Bakura and turns up in a gruesome light. In the original story, according to Esper Roba's dialogue, he is dead, and in the extra story (lit. "another story") after that, Yu-Gi-Oh R, it also explicitly portrayals him as being dead, and even the original author states that he "was assassinated by Bakura and died." In the original author's interviews and afterwords, his death was handled as an extremely important thing and died having his duty done; atoning for his sins he lives with Cyndia together in Heaven; and other words to those effects are often seen.

His death being an important thing was mentioned in the Gospel of Truth, while Pegasus reuniting with Cyndia in Heaven was mentioned in the Bunkoban afterwords. (Said interview was not scanned and posted by Cindy, unfortunately. I know this from a Japanese Wiki which mentions the bunkoban as the source.)

How exactly is the eye supposed to have brainwashed Pegasus? I never did get that part. Pegasus might have seemed somewhat obsessive, but not completely OOC.

The Eye had an independent mind, as well as the rest of the Items, as pointed out by Pegasus himself. An evil intelligence.

Here's Takahashi's explanation from the Gospel of Truth:

Just Who in the World is Pegasus?
--What role does Pegasus serve?
After getting the Millennium Eye in Egypt, Pegasus spontaneously decided to make the cards. The card game gained reputation in America, and, through a joint business venture with Kaiba Corporation, converted their monsters for Solid Vision. But, it seemed that Pegasus' own goals involved taking over the Kaiba Corporation. He wanted the technical strength of the Kaiba Corporation to revive his lost lover, Cyndia.

However, the Millennium Items have always had a quality to attract to one another. Pegasus, guided by that quality, resurrected the cards that would prompt the Items to assemble. This was, rather than the Millennium Eye giving him a revelation, he had been brainwashed washed by the Millennium Eye. It's also possible to think that, in the end, the cards were created by him, or, that, they were made to be made by the Millennium Eye. Since he was originally good at painting, he may have been chosen by the Millennium Eye.

And, having created one world and gathered the Millennium Items, he ends up dying, his role being finished. "Yu-Gi-Oh!," fundamentally, also has elements with a "death"-based theme.

It could explain why Pegasus may have been wanting to pitch Yugi and Kaiba against each other during Duelist Kingdom, among other reasons. Yugi and Kaiba are connected by the past, as shown on the Tablet of the Pharaoh's Memories.

As for Pegasus being OOC, he did have one moment during Episode 85 of the anime. While it wasn't in the manga, it was one of those episodes which fit into the canon quite neatly, expanding on the creation of the God Cards. Pegasus was willing to have them created, no matter what the cost. He didn't bat an eye at his crew dying at the hands of the Gods, being punished for not being the Chosen One. Then Pegasus took on the Gods' anger with his Millennium Eye, but soon realized he does not have the power to control the Gods. Shadi gave him a warning that he is about to bring back the Games of Darkness to life. But Pegasus said he did not care, he would rather sell his soul to the Devil to have the game resurrected.

On top of everything, his Eye frequently shone, indicating that it wasn't quite himself saying those statements. After all, he had been a boy who even wanted to save a stranger and see his loved one again. The same boy became too focused on bringing back dangerous magic to life, being apathetic towards people he worked with dying. Yes, that is how the Eye brainwashed him.

In the Pyramid of Light novelization, Pegasus explained that the Eye took control of him and he sought dark powers.

Before long, controlled by the Millennium Eye, I sought dark powers. It was no doubt on part of my feeble spirit.

While the novelization does contradict the original story on a few parts, this explanation makes sense. Pegasus was mentally weak after Cyndia's death, her death shook him pretty hard, after all. While the Eye did grant his wish true, he could see her for a fleeting moment, but this did not ease his heartbreak one bit. In fact, it may have made it even more painful for him, making his spirit even weaker. This, along with his artistic abilities, made him a great puppet material for the Eye. He was easy to control because of his mental state, and his artistic abilities helped the Eye bring Duel Monsters to life, as well as get all the Items assembled together eventually.

But even if you don't want to take the above explanations into consideration, there's Takahashi's explanation. That should clear it up enough.

And Shaadi, it definitely seems like he was dead before the series started. Actually, did Bakura Ryou get the ring five years ago? I don't see any other way that thief Bakura/Zork could have killed him. And no, I don't count any fillers, movies or any other bits that were not in the original manga.

I don't think it is known when Bakura got the Ring. Or at least, I have no knowledge of the date of Bakura acquiring the Ring. We just know Shadi and Bakura had something going on 5 years prior the series' present.

[Prismamaster]

I think that 4kids will add the last two episodes of yugioh gx in the movie.4kids needs to explain of how jaden got his powers.4kids also needs to explain of how jaden finished duel academy.The movie would be 89 minutes long.

[63cohen]

I think that 4kids will add the last two episodes of yugioh gx in the movie.4kids needs to explain of how jaden got his powers.4kids also needs to explain of how jaden finished duel academy.The movie would be 89 minutes long.

Just to say it again, 4kids doesn't need to do any explaining. I and many others have explained why, so please stop bumping this topic about how "4kids must add in stuff to explain" nothing.

[DarkDust_Dragon]

Pegasus' death is really just ambiguous. It's never outright stated if it was blood loss. It could have been Bakura giving him some kind of a Penalty Game. Takahashi did mention that Bakura assassinated him. By what means, however, was something he did not mention or elaborate on.

Having one's eye gauged out is far from guaranteeing one bleeds to death. The veins that link to the eye are small, thin, and under very low pressure compared to elsewhere in the body. Furthermore, once his old eye was removed by the insertion of the Millennium Eye, the blood vessels would have clotted and eventually healed shut, as happens with shark bite victims who lose limbs.

No, my guess is Pegasus died of shock from the whole incident, a very real and possible cause of death.

[Arynis]

Having one's eye gauged out is far from guaranteeing one bleeds to death. The veins that link to the eye are small, thin, and under very low pressure compared to elsewhere in the body. Furthermore, once his old eye was removed by the insertion of the Millennium Eye, the blood vessels would have clotted and eventually healed shut, as happens with shark bite victims who lose limbs.

No, my guess is Pegasus died of shock from the whole incident, a very real and possible cause of death.

This, pretty much. Although there was quite a splatter on the table, but that could be chalked up to anime characters having huge blood vessels. Or, Bakura did more harm to Pegasus and his face than just rip the Eye off (like tearing up his face -- his face was quite scarred around the Eye, anyway) which caused the splatter. Also, the blood splatter is slightly bigger in R than in the original. See here. Could have taken some time before he was found, or it was just the artist doing it for the heck of it. Your choice.

Shock sounds pretty believeable, yeah. He kind of had a Blue Screen Of Death after Yugi's duel, anyway. I don't think recalling his past was a pleasant thing, either, even if meeting Cyndia was on his mind all the time. Add a crazy white haired boy tearing his Millennium Eye out while delivering an ironic line to him and we have a winner.

[PharaohAtem]

Pegasus' death is really just ambiguous. It's never outright stated if it was blood loss. It could have been Bakura giving him some kind of a Penalty Game. Takahashi did mention that Bakura assassinated him. By what means, however, was something he did not mention or elaborate on.

Here's what the Japanese Wikipedia writes about Pegasus' death. The Japanese Wikipedia is deemed quite accurate as far as Yu-Gi-Oh! is concerned.

His death being an important thing was mentioned in the Gospel of Truth, while Pegasus reuniting with Cyndia in Heaven was mentioned in the Bunkoban afterwords. (Said interview was not scanned and posted by Cindy, unfortunately. I know this from a Japanese Wiki which mentions the bunkoban as the source.)

From what you see in the manga, he does not appear to have other injuries than the gouged out eye. So I have no idea how Bakura would have assassinated him, precisely.

As for Pegasus being OOC, he did have one moment during Episode 85 of the anime. While it wasn't in the manga, it was one of those episodes which fit into the canon quite neatly, expanding on the creation of the God Cards. Pegasus was willing to have them created, no matter what the cost. He didn't bat an eye at his crew dying at the hands of the Gods, being punished for not being the Chosen One. Then Pegasus took on the Gods' anger with his Millennium Eye, but soon realized he does not have the power to control the Gods. Shadi gave him a warning that he is about to bring back the Games of Darkness to life. But Pegasus said he did not care, he would rather sell his soul to the Devil to have the game resurrected.

Fillers are fillers... But this seems to directly contradict Ishizu's statement that Pegasus felt that it was the biggest mistake of his life to have created those cards. The rest of your paragraph sounds even more OOC for Pegasus imo.

On top of everything, his Eye frequently shone, indicating that it wasn't quite himself saying those statements. After all, he had been a boy who even wanted to save a stranger and see his loved one again. The same boy became too focused on bringing back dangerous magic to life, being apathetic towards people he worked with dying. Yes, that is how the Eye brainwashed him.

Makes sense.

But even if you don't want to take the above explanations into consideration, there's Takahashi's explanation. That should clear it up enough.

Takahashi's explanation sounds better, but the only explanations I absolutely won't take into consideration are the ones coming from filler material.

I don't think it is known when Bakura got the Ring. Or at least, I have no knowledge of the date of Bakura acquiring the Ring. We just know Shadi and Bakura had something going on 5 years prior the series' present.

Bakura mentions his father gave it to him, but apparently never mentions when. Or, for that matter, how far back his friends started falling into comas. It probably can't have been 5 years. My big question is really *how* they could have had anything going on 5 years before the series' present if the ring had no owner then.

[PharaohAtem]

Having one's eye gauged out is far from guaranteeing one bleeds to death. The veins that link to the eye are small, thin, and under very low pressure compared to elsewhere in the body. Furthermore, once his old eye was removed by the insertion of the Millennium Eye, the blood vessels would have clotted and eventually healed shut, as happens with shark bite victims who lose limbs.

No, my guess is Pegasus died of shock from the whole incident, a very real and possible cause of death.

He doesn't really look like someone who died of shock imo. On the other hand, you do see an awful lot of blood, most of which could be pooled beneath his suit, btw, especially since he's still in an upright position.

This, pretty much. Although there was quite a splatter on the table, but that could be chalked up to anime characters having huge blood vessels. Or, Bakura did more harm to Pegasus and his face than just rip the Eye off (like tearing up his face -- his face was quite scarred around the Eye, anyway) which caused the splatter. Also, the blood splatter is slightly bigger in R than in the original. See here. Could have taken some time before he was found, or it was just the artist doing it for the heck of it. Your choice.

Shock sounds pretty believeable, yeah. He kind of had a Blue Screen Of Death after Yugi's duel, anyway. I don't think recalling his past was a pleasant thing, either, even if meeting Cyndia was on his mind all the time. Add a crazy white haired boy tearing his Millennium Eye out while delivering an ironic line to him and we have a winner.

I don't think there was much that could shock him past his defeat at Yuugi's hands. It could simply be that he just didn't care after that, but he almost looks like he died peacefully, minus the blood. I mean it in the sense of someone who's come to terms with it.

[GoldenUmi]

Pegasus' death is really just ambiguous. It's never outright stated if it was blood loss. It could have been Bakura giving him some kind of a Penalty Game. Takahashi did mention that Bakura assassinated him. By what means, however, was something he did not mention or elaborate on.

Probably because it was far too graphic for a shonen series. :]

[PharaohAtem]

Probably because it was far too graphic for a shonen series. :]

Dunno about that. I just noticed in one of the chapters of Pharaoh Atem's pursuit of thief Bakura, Duos cut off Diabound's hand, which ended up slashing Bakura's hand as well. I'm sure this is only one of the examples. And I'm not sure I didn't find a bit disturbing that in the other Yuugi's duel against Malik, Yuugi was just being eaten up by darkness.

[GoldenUmi]

Yeah, but there's only so much a Shonen series will show as far as blood and violence goes. Granted, the stuff in the YGO manga and series like One Piece, Bleach, Naruto, Fairy Tail, etc get pretty bloody at times, they are no match against something, like say Hellsing for example. The amount of blood on the table after Bakura was finished was disturbing in itself and suggests some really brutal action.

[Arynis]

From what you see in the manga, he does not appear to have other injuries than the gouged out eye. So I have no idea how Bakura would have assassinated him, precisely.

The act of removing the Eye could have been what killed Pegasus. Or just because we don't see anything doesn't mean that Bakura's attack couldn't have been, say, of the mental variety (eg. Penalty Game). Still, whatever Bakura did killed Pegasus.

Fillers are fillers... But this seems to directly contradict Ishizu's statement that Pegasus felt that it was the biggest mistake of his life to have created those cards. The rest of your paragraph sounds even more OOC for Pegasus imo.

Not really. I said he was brainwashed. By the Eye. And considering that the God Cards are especially important in getting the Items together, the Eye's brainwash effects may have been the strongest at the time, because the God Cards had to be created at all costs. Which perfectly explains Pegasus' "OOC" behavior. Because that was not him. It was him being brainwashed.

After the creation of the God Cards, I could see the Eye stopping the brainwashing, or at least reduce its intensity, because Duel Monsters was done. A lot of cards created, and most importantly of all, the God Cards were finished. Pegasus' main role to resurrect Duel Monsters was finished. Hence why Pegasus was horrified at the creation of the God Cards and considered it his biggest mistake. He was the man again who he was (sorta) before he received the Eye and got brainwashed.

Bakura mentions his father gave it to him, but apparently never mentions when. Or, for that matter, how far back his friends started falling into comas. It probably can't have been 5 years. My big question is really *how* they could have had anything going on 5 years before the series' present if the ring had no owner then.

To quote a discussion on Shadi we had in another thread, because I remembered it...

Volume 27:

Bakura: (That was...Shadi...!!)
(Impossible...
Five years ago, he was already...!!)

And anything afterwards would have to be in Volume 30-ish...err, whenever Bobasa first showed up.

I think that the idea that Bakura killed Shadi five years before (it would be five years before Battle City) is misleading. What Bakura actually says is "Five years ago, he was already..." He's saying that Shadi was dead five years ago, not that he died five years ago. The five year date only comes from when Marik met Shadi. I think Shadi's been dead for a long, long time.

Considering this is Yugioh, a ghost being able to interact with the real world is the least of our problems. The only time he ever looks ghost-like in the manga is when the temple is collapsing in the last chapter. In the anime, he just teleports everywhere (making it a lot less subtle).

So yeah. Shadi being a can of ambiguous Mind Screw, as always. :'|

[DarkDust_Dragon]

This, pretty much. Although there was quite a splatter on the table, but that could be chalked up to anime characters having huge blood vessels. Or, Bakura did more harm to Pegasus and his face than just rip the Eye off (like tearing up his face -- his face was quite scarred around the Eye, anyway) which caused the splatter. Also, the blood splatter is slightly bigger in R than in the original. See here. Could have taken some time before he was found, or it was just the artist doing it for the heck of it. Your choice.

Shock sounds pretty believable, yeah. He kind of had a Blue Screen Of Death after Yugi's duel, anyway. I don't think recalling his past was a pleasant thing, either, even if meeting Cyndia was on his mind all the time. Add a crazy white haired boy tearing his Millennium Eye out while delivering an ironic line to him and we have a winner.

It's also possible, yes, that this occured. Though in my experience, people who perform acts like that generally injure themselves as well; so perhaps some of the blood of Bakura's.

Shock can be brought on by a number of things; burns, extreme bone fractures, trauma, etc. It affects the heart rhythm. If his eye were ripped out, the shock would have accelerated bloodflow to the area, making it bleed fater or even hemorrhage.

I don't think there was much that could shock him past his defeat at Yuugi's hands. It could simply be that he just didn't care after that, but he almost looks like he died peacefully, minus the blood. I mean it in the sense of someone who's come to terms with it.

This sounds like a misinterpretation of my words. I apologize; I should have been more clear. I'm not taking about "shock" as being stunned by what happened; shock is also a medical term for the body's extreme reactions to an external or internal trauma. This can include respiratory, circulatory, and neurovascular distress; on other words, people who suffer shock can have heart attacks, stop breathing, suffer strokes, etc. It's not pretty.

[Allana]

Yeah, I did know about the exact manner of Kanekura's death, in Pegasus' case it's probably just blood loss, but I thought the thief had burned alive. Is this another reference to future series, about him becoming good?

I have to admit I simply don't remember these Death Imitator or Sozoji people... Which chapters of the manga were they in?

No, the Gospel is the only reference. Sozoji appears in the third chapter of the manga and the ventriloquist appears in Chapter 15 of the English manga.

The act of removing the Eye could have been what killed Pegasus. Or just because we don't see anything doesn't mean that Bakura's attack couldn't have been, say, of the mental variety (eg. Penalty Game). Still, whatever Bakura did killed Pegasus.

To quote a discussion on Shadi we had in another thread, because I remembered it...

So yeah. Shadi being a can of ambiguous Mind Screw, as always. :'|

Bakura killing Pegasus by a Penalty Game seems more credible. I don't see Bakura take the eye quietly and Pegasus died instantaneously.

I'm agree with Ryusaki about Shadi.

[DarkDust_Dragon]

Bakura killing Pegasus by a Penalty Game seems more credible. I don't see Bakura take the eye quietly and Pegasus died instantaneously.

I'm agree with Ryusaki about Shadi.

It's really hard to say one way or another. I can only imagine the Penalty Game that makes you bleed to death. It must be exactly like what Scar does to his victims.

[PharaohAtem]

It's also possible, yes, that this occured. Though in my experience, people who perform acts like that generally injure themselves as well; so perhaps some of the blood of Bakura's.

Shock can be brought on by a number of things; burns, extreme bone fractures, trauma, etc. It affects the heart rhythm. If his eye were ripped out, the shock would have accelerated bloodflow to the area, making it bleed fater or even hemorrhage.

I understood what you meant, don't worry. This is actually exactly why I thought Pegasus' death most likely was from excessive bleeding. As for Bakura, he did not look like he had any injury at all.

No, the Gospel is the only reference. Sozoji appears in the third chapter of the manga and the ventriloquist appears in Chapter 15 of the English manga.

Bakura killing Pegasus by a Penalty Game seems more credible. I don't see Bakura take the eye quietly and Pegasus died instantaneously.

Oh, I remember those chapters now that I've reread them. And wow, chapter 3 has a both funny and nasty little penalty game... Btw, what exactly do you mean by ventriloquist? It was just the archaeologist possessed by Shaadi's ankh, in chapter 26. As for Bakura, well, I don't know, but a penalty game makes little to no sense to me, in and of itself.

[Arynis]

She probably means the ventriloquist with the Kaiba puppet. That Puppeteer guy. Although I think he just ended up suffering of visions of his puppet looming at him with that High Octane Nightmare Fuel face.

As for the topic itself, the movie, and any news info, there is...

...

...still no news. On 2CH, the Japanese are still waiting for the DVD. They are getting pretty impatient. Not that I blame them, they are getting kind of screwed over due to the movie needed to be released overseas first. Then again, one could argue we have it worse, because they got to see the movie, at least.

[Lia]

...still no news. On 2CH, the Japanese are still waiting for the DVD. They are getting pretty impatient. Not that I blame them, they are getting kind of screwed over due to the movie needed to be released overseas first. Then again, one could argue we have it worse, because they got to see the movie, at least.

Is it my very low net, or Nintendo World BBS can't load at all?

[Arynis]

Nah. Their server tends to go kaput sometimes, making the site unreachable.

Just like how Janime has downtimes now and then.

[Allana]

She probably means the ventriloquist with the Kaiba puppet. That Puppeteer guy. Although I think he just ended up suffering of visions of his puppet looming at him with that High Octane Nightmare Fuel face.

As for the topic itself, the movie, and any news info, there is...

...

...still no news. On 2CH, the Japanese are still waiting for the DVD. They are getting pretty impatient. Not that I blame them, they are getting kind of screwed over due to the movie needed to be released overseas first. Then again, one could argue we have it worse, because they got to see the movie, at least.

Yes, It's him. I thought English manga used also this word to designate him. It isn't this chapter? In fact, I used Wikia to know how chapters are realeased in English because they don't follow the Japanese version. In original version, these chapters are 74 to 76.

Next to the Penalty Game, the puppeteer (Thanks for the word, Arynis! ^^) is obliged to end his pupeteer's career. When he looks his puppet, he sees himself.

[PharaohAtem]

She probably means the ventriloquist with the Kaiba puppet. That Puppeteer guy. Although I think he just ended up suffering of visions of his puppet looming at him with that High Octane Nightmare Fuel face.

Oh, that guy... Well, that's not chapter 15, unless someone meant chapter 15 counting from one of the first Duelist Kingdom chapters.

Yes, It's him. I thought English manga used also this word to designate him. It isn't this chapter? In fact, I used Wikia to know how chapters are realeased in English because they don't follow the Japanese version. In original version, these chapters are 74 to 76.

Next to the Penalty Game, the puppeteer (Thanks for the word, Arynis! ^^) is obliged to end his pupeteer's career. When he looks his puppet, he sees himself.

What, you mean, always? His was a lasting penalty game? Though I guess it'd be fitting. Do you mean that scanlated chapters don't follow the japanese version? Because it makes no sense if the manga volumes themselves don't follow it.

[Allana]

Oh, that guy... Well, that's not chapter 15, unless someone meant chapter 15 counting from one of the first Duelist Kingdom chapters.

What, you mean, always? His was a lasting penalty game? Though I guess it'd be fitting. Do you mean that scanlated chapters don't follow the japanese version? Because it makes no sense if the manga volumes themselves don't follow it.

The puppeteer appears in chapters 74 to 76 in Japanese manga. English translators choose to realease Yu-Gi-Oh! manga differently, that's why the numbering is different.

[DarkDust_Dragon]

As for the topic itself, the movie, and any news info, there is...

...

...still no news. On 2CH, the Japanese are still waiting for the DVD. They are getting pretty impatient. Not that I blame them, they are getting kind of screwed over due to the movie needed to be released overseas first. Then again, one could argue we have it worse, because they got to see the movie, at least.

Still nothing, eh? Maybe in September/October; that seems to be when this sort of news most often pops up.

[Arynis]

Maybe, DarkDust. Maybe.

Also, I forgot to mention this:

http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/...ie/1272780346/

The link to the 2CH thread for the movie has changed -- that is the new URL. The first post has been updated.

[63cohen]

To be honest, the movie is somewhat of a failure in Japan. Making only 2 million is quite bad, even by their standards. The Japanese forums users need to understand that the Japanese market might not snatch up the DVDs as much as the international market might. A joint release would be more beneficial to the movie as a whole, no matter what a small population of Japanese fans want. I believe they should get something, but there are reasons to Konami's madness.

I figure a DVD will come out near April, as that is when the fuller version is shown (if the Konami rep is correct in saying there are more scenes in 3D).

[DarkDust_Dragon]

To be honest, the movie is somewhat of a failure in Japan. Making only 2 million is quite bad, even by their standards. The Japanese forums users need to understand that the Japanese market might not snatch up the DVDs as much as the international market might. A joint release would be more beneficial to the movie as a whole, no matter what a small population of Japanese fans want. I believe they should get something, but there are reasons to Konami's madness.

That's very true. 2 million is chump change by film standards; it's most likely the shoe budget of the average Hollywood movie. But what would you joint-release it with?

I figure a DVD will come out near April, as that is when the fuller version is shown (if the Konami rep is correct in saying there are more scenes in 3D).

That's a pretty good guess I'd say; but really, all we want is the sub. And didn't something say 4Kids would release an official sub some time before or around the theater airing of the movie.

[63cohen]

I think those subs were by Konami, as they were of different style from those 4kids did on Sonic X (font and accuracy). So it seems subs will be done by them for now.

As for joint release, I meant release with the international versions, English, Spanish, French, German, etc. English will obviously be first of course.

[DarkDust_Dragon]

I think those subs were by Konami, as they were of different style from those 4kids did on Sonic X (font and accuracy). So it seems subs will be done by them for now.

Ah, I see; but I was referring more to the release date anyway.

As for joint release, I meant release with the international versions, English, Spanish, French, German, etc. English will obviously be first of course.

Okay, I get it now.

[PharaohAtem]

The puppeteer appears in chapters 74 to 76 in Japanese manga. English translators choose to realease Yu-Gi-Oh! manga differently, that's why the numbering is different.

As long as you mean scanlators and not english publishers, because the latter borders on copyright infringement.

[Makoeyes987]

As long as you mean scanlators and not english publishers, because the latter borders on copyright infringement.

...How is the english Viz publishers choosing to release the chapters differently border...on copyright infringement?

[Lia]

Also, I forgot to mention this:

http://yuzuru.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/...ie/1272780346/

The link to the 2CH thread for the movie has changed -- that is the new URL. The first post has been updated.

I was wondering why the old link doesn't work for me at all. Thanks for the info. x)

[Arynis]

To be honest, the movie is somewhat of a failure in Japan. Making only 2 million is quite bad, even by their standards. The Japanese forums users need to understand that the Japanese market might not snatch up the DVDs as much as the international market might. A joint release would be more beneficial to the movie as a whole, no matter what a small population of Japanese fans want. I believe they should get something, but there are reasons to Konami's madness.

The only thing that bugs me is that the box office info was available only for January and February, but absolutely nothing on March or April. I would have expected income for March, at least, especially with people claiming they went to watch the movie several times. Unless, again, it's related to how box office income is calculated. (i.e., if the movie doesn't have X income / doesn't rank in the top 10 or top X, then they don't count it at all?)

Also, a slight correction: The movie made $612,629 in South Korea, making the total gross $2,631,615 as of early February. Although that still makes it about 2 million for Japan only.

Source: https://boxofficemojo.com/movies/int...IOHMOVIESUPE01

I was wondering why the old link doesn't work for me at all. Thanks for the info. x)

Yeah, same here. Took me a few searches on 2CH to notice it. You're welcome.

[DarkDust_Dragon]

The only thing that bugs me is that the box office info was available only for January and February, but absolutely nothing on March or April. I would have expected income for March, at least, especially with people claiming they went to watch the movie several times. Unless, again, it's related to how box office income is calculated. (i.e., if the movie doesn't have X income / doesn't rank in the top 10 or top X, then they don't count it at all?)

Perhaps it made next to nothing during those months. It's not like a movie here where anybody could be willing to see it; only Yugioh fans would want to pay money to see the movie, and they most likely all went in those first two months.

Also, a slight correction: The movie made $612,629 in South Korea, making the total gross $2,631,615 as of early February. Although that still makes it about 2 million for Japan only.

Source: https://boxofficemojo.com/movies/int...IOHMOVIESUPE01

A bit closer to $3 million, but still overall a flop by Western - and most likely Japanese - film standards.

[PharaohAtem]

...How is the english Viz publishers choosing to release the chapters differently border...on copyright infringement?

Gee, I dunno, maybe because they don't have the right to take someone else's work and release it as they see fit?

[Makoeyes987]

Gee, I dunno, maybe because they don't have the right to take someone else's work and release it as they see fit?

But they are the publishers. They own the rights to publishing the manga. They can release it as many times they want, in any way they want. That's what being a publisher is all about.

[63cohen]

I would like to expand on what Mako said. Viz Media owns the Yugioh manga in America (and possibly worldwide minus Asia). As long as they bought the content from Shonen Jump, they can release it any way possible. Of course edits are a different story, but the medium and such is up to them. Same goes for 4kids. They own the anime everywhere but Asia. As far as release goes, they can do it whenever they want. Of course Konami has a say in that as well, but that is a different story. The medium is up to them.

I tried to post this earlier, but as long as the movie's revenue is greater than the budget, it is a success. I don't think it was however. And dubbing/subbing by Konami/4kids itself cost money as well, so that is a bigger step back.

[Xray950]

This begs the question:
When (if?) it is released internationally, will it flop here too?

[Makoeyes987]

Wait, how do you know how much the movie grossed so far? Where are you getting the full figures to say its a flop?

[PharaohAtem]

But they are the publishers. They own the rights to publishing the manga. They can release it as many times they want, in any way they want. That's what being a publisher is all about.

Kindly understand the difference between the following two things:

1) Changing a few names, changing the meaning of a sentence to make it fit more culturally, or remove religious references, changing a few names and Americanizing a few sentences for the heck of it, removing certain details of an image or references considered either offensive or "not proper for kids";
2) Changing the order of chapters, ignoring entire chapters (or an arc)

It should be obvious to you that no matter what rights they may own about publishing the manga, option #2 would never be allowed.

I would like to expand on what Mako said. Viz Media owns the Yugioh manga in America (and possibly worldwide minus Asia). As long as they bought the content from Shonen Jump, they can release it any way possible. Of course edits are a different story, but the medium and such is up to them. Same goes for 4kids. They own the anime everywhere but Asia. As far as release goes, they can do it whenever they want. Of course Konami has a say in that as well, but that is a different story. The medium is up to them.

I will advise you to please think about what you say *before* you say it. No matter what rights they may own to publish the manga in english, the work is not theirs and they have absolutely no rights to actually meaningfully modify it in ways that would be disrespectful of the author's work.

[Starry]

I will advise you to please think about what you say *before* you say it. No matter what rights they may own to publish the manga in english, the work is not theirs and they have absolutely no rights to actually meaningfully modify it in ways that would be disrespectful of the author's work.

Whenever an author signs away their work for somebody else to adapt, they don't get a choice of what happens to the adaptation. Do you think Takahashi would have approved of how the Memory World Arc was handled in the anime? Or any other countless amounts of manga and anime that suffer from Adaptation Decay because they strayed from what the author envisioned? Probably not, but its just how adapting works. I could list thousands of works that have been significantly modified this way.

[Arynis]

http://www.comixology.com/articles/6...-Edited-Before

I'd like to throw this in as well.

That guy working on the manga admitted they did make some silly changes, but he does love the series. Which is quite something.

[Makoeyes987]

Kindly understand the difference between the following two things:

1) Changing a few names, changing the meaning of a sentence to make it fit more culturally, or remove religious references, changing a few names and Americanizing a few sentences for the heck of it, removing certain details of an image or references considered either offensive or "not proper for kids";
2) Changing the order of chapters, ignoring entire chapters (or an arc)

It should be obvious to you that no matter what rights they may own about publishing the manga, option #2 would never be allowed.

Umm, I don't know you think you know, but they can do whatever they want with the properties they own. The rights are there's. They could change the dialogue or whatever however much they like and that's their legal right.

Hell, they've done that before. You think they aren't allowed to use their properties however they like?

Look at the lack of release of the last season of YGO GX if you need anymore proof. You think 4kids is gonna get sued for not releasing it or something? Are you serious?

[PharaohAtem]

Whenever an author signs away their work for somebody else to adapt, they don't get a choice of what happens to the adaptation. Do you think Takahashi would have approved of how the Memory World Arc was handled in the anime? Or any other countless amounts of manga and anime that suffer from Adaptation Decay because they strayed from what the author envisioned? Probably not, but its just how adapting works. I could list thousands of works that have been significantly modified this way.

As I mentioned to Makoeyes987, those changes might logically include changing a few names, changing the meaning of a sentence to make it fit more culturally, or remove religious references, changing a few names and Americanizing a few sentences for the heck of it, removing certain details of an image or references considered either offensive or "not proper for kids". That is a sad fact of translation. However, switching chapters around or ignoring some of them would never stand. Also, an anime adaptation is just that: an adaptation. Not like a translation. I am certain that translators are much more constrained than those who make manga series into anime series.

http://www.comixology.com/articles/6...-Edited-Before

I'd like to throw this in as well.

That guy working on the manga admitted they did make some silly changes, but he does love the series. Which is quite something.

Thanks, this is interesting. However, a few silly changes is hardly the same as switching chapters around or outright ignoring some of them.

Umm, I don't know you think you know, but they can do whatever they want with the properties they own. The rights are there's. They could change the dialogue or whatever however much they like and that's their legal right.

Hell, they've done that before. You think they aren't allowed to use their properties however they like?

Look at the lack of release of the last season of YGO GX if you need anymore proof. You think 4kids is gonna get sued for not releasing it or something? Are you serious?

Pay attention to the things that other people say, and to the things you say as well. Translation changes such as changing a bit of dialogue and names here and there is a completely different matter than changing the order of chapters and/or ignoring entire chapters or manga arcs. What you have just mentioned above is what I already agreed to, ie the "normal" changes that come about in translation which I mentioned in my first point.

[Ryusaki]

Pay attention to the things that other people say, and to the things you say as well. Translation changes such as changing a bit of dialogue and names here and there is a completely different matter than changing the order of chapters and/or ignoring entire chapters or manga arcs. What you have just mentioned above is what I already agreed to, ie the "normal" changes that come about in translation which I mentioned in my first point.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but Viz have never changed the order of chapters or ignored chapters. All they did was split YGO into three separately-named series so they could release it faster.

[cashman_11]

Yeah, and it's actually kind of helpful that way. While it's not the way it was released in Japan, it's just a numbering change, as opposed to 4kids completely altering the storyline and character development in the anime. And as Ryusaki said, it was a release thing. Volumes 1-7 were partially covered in the first series that never saw release outside of Japan, so it was released in Shonen Jump and serialized. The Volumes that were released as Duelist (Originally 8-31), were the Duelist Kingdom arcs and Battle City arcs, so they were released seperately as most people had already seen them. Then Shonen Jump continued from 32 & on, serializing the rest and the volumes were released as Millennium World. I don't find it too bad, there were VERY few edits made, and most of them were either cursing or religious symbols. (And the only symbol I even know of was Nightmare Cross in the Pandora VS Yugi fight, which was made a panel, as for the cursing, I'm talking about Keith's and Pegasus' toons)

[DarkDust_Dragon]

Wait, how do you know how much the movie grossed so far? Where are you getting the full figures to say its a flop?

Probably from the website for the movie.

This begs the question:
When (if?) it is released internationally, will it flop here too?

I think that it might do somwhat better here, is based solely on the fact that it will be in multiple countries, with higher total population (and therefore more fans) than Japan. But only time will tell.

[PharaohAtem]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but Viz have never changed the order of chapters or ignored chapters. All they did was split YGO into three separately-named series so they could release it faster.

My point exactly. If you scroll up a bit, I was merely asking Makoeyes987 precisely what she meant by "english translators" when she referred to the "puppeteer" as first appearing in "chapter 15 of the english manga", when she actually meant that he appeared in chapters 74-76 of the manga. I was merely pointing out that changing the order of chapters is something the english publishers would not be allowed to do because it would border on copyright infringement. That was when she launched into this nonsense about translation changes and adaptation changes being viewed the same way by publishers and those who make anime, and therefore both being equally acceptable.

Yeah, and it's actually kind of helpful that way. While it's not the way it was released in Japan, it's just a numbering change, as opposed to 4kids completely altering the storyline and character development in the anime. And as Ryusaki said, it was a release thing. Volumes 1-7 were partially covered in the first series that never saw release outside of Japan, so it was released in Shonen Jump and serialized. The Volumes that were released as Duelist (Originally 8-31), were the Duelist Kingdom arcs and Battle City arcs, so they were released seperately as most people had already seen them. Then Shonen Jump continued from 32 & on, serializing the rest and the volumes were released as Millennium World. I don't find it too bad, there were VERY few edits made, and most of them were either cursing or religious symbols. (And the only symbol I even know of was Nightmare Cross in the Pandora VS Yugi fight, which was made a panel, as for the cursing, I'm talking about Keith's and Pegasus' toons)

Well, the point here is that if you're gonna refer to chapters 1-onward by considering Duelist Kingdom the starting point, you need to say so, and clearly. Sure the second anime series only covers the part of the manga starting at Duelist Kingdom, but since this is clearly not how the manga was released, then the point is moot when one is talking about the manga. Also if the english version of the manga makes those divisions, then clearly mention to the division you're referring to for those of us who don't happen to own the english manga.

[63cohen]

When an author signs with a company, in this case Kaz, the company now owns his work. Shonen Jump owns Yugioh, not Kaz. When Shonen Jump signs with Viz (and also 4kids) the property is theirs to do what they see fit (and yes, the original people are always contacted as said by Mark Kirk). Theirs in the sense of everywhere but Asia, as that is the deal.

@Pharaoh Atem

That is quite rude to try and disprove my fact that way. You cannot disprove a fact, especially like that.

In fact, wasn't this about the movie? You took us off topic. I would just like to say I got temp banned elsewhere for doing that. Keep on topic next time please.

[PharaohAtem]

When an author signs with a company, in this case Kaz, the company now owns his work. Shonen Jump owns Yugioh, not Kaz. When Shonen Jump signs with Viz (and also 4kids) the property is theirs to do what they see fit (and yes, the original people are always contacted as said by Mark Kirk). Theirs in the sense of everywhere but Asia, as that is the deal.

I understood what you said, now it's time for you to understand what *I* have been saying. Yes, they own the rights, and yes, they can modify parts of it, small parts, but there are things that will never be considered acceptable. Switching chapters around and/or ignoring chapters or arcs is never going to be acceptable.

That is quite rude to try and disprove my fact that way. You cannot disprove a fact, especially like that.

Kindly get off your high horse. Not only was I giving you good advice, ie think before you talk (and in this case carefully read what the other person has written before answering), but as for the matter of disproving you, if I did, then it's because I am right about this. Besides, it's not as though you're not right on some level, ie as far as small changes to a manga go, you're just not right about what would be considered acceptable changes by any company, rights or no rights. As for being rude, sorry if it seemed that way, but frankly, the tone of Makoeyes987's first reply of August 26th made me a bit angry, and it didn't exactly get better from that point on.

In fact, wasn't this about the movie? You took us off topic. I would just like to say I got temp banned elsewhere for doing that. Keep on topic next time please.

I debated ignoring this nonsense, but decided against it. First of all, no, I did not take you off topic, the topic was headed in that direction and I happened to join in on the conversation. Secondly, you have no right to be telling anyone what to do, least of all in bold, which I removed for you.